Covered Aventail????

[Armoured Air Bear]

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone on here knows of a period source for covered aventails. I believe there is a statue of St. Geourge at Prauge (I'm not sure of it) that has an aventail covered in padded leather. if anyone has any period or even reproduction sources for aventails being covered in clothe leather ect... I would love to hear about it or see pics.

thanks in advance,

Aaron

[Cet]

Covered aventails aren't too hard to find in art. my scanner's brken so I can't do to much as far as sending pics but I'll add some sources showing them later.

The Walter von Hohenklingen effigy is probably the most well known example.

[Armoured Air Bear]

I have seen his effigy as well. But I was wondering how they were covered, and what they were covered with. that was the question that I had meant to ask, as I have many books that show the covered aventails.

thank you,

Aaron

[Cet]

It's no usuallypossible to determine fabric types from statuary or painting from this period and the only period description I can think of comes from Sir Gawain (IIRC) and I belive that was embroidered silk.

I think you'd be safe going with any rich material for knightly impression: silk brocade, velvet, silk satin, fine leather, fine linen cloth etc... Plain cloth would likely be embroidered and/or decorated with bezants, pearls, etc...

[Armoured Air Bear]

Would tooled leather work? Also I believe in Walter Von Hohenklingen's effigy it lookis like padded leather or fabric of some sort. (I don't have a pic of his effigy in front of me so I may be thinking of another effigy) but the padding is in vertical "tubes"- which seems that it would get wrather hot, having a padded aventail then the maille aventail then a padded covered aventail. I don't know though. also what was the purpose for these covered aventails- to stop rusting/noise/sun, or to display heraldry?

thank you,

aaron

[T. Finkas]

All good questions. And the Walter VH one looke like it's either OVER maile or stuffed with maille. I believe there are period text descriptions or suggestions of both. Remember that there is a counterintuitive (to us modern folk) tendency to wear quilted cloth armour OVER maille---on occasion. The iconography show us this from the Maciejowski Bible miniatures all the way up to the paintings of the 15th century.

Interesting, eh? I still don't know what to make of all that. Oh, and here's a gamboised aventail I made a few years ago:

[Armoured Air Bear]

First of all, nice work T. Finkas. now you mentioned the cloth/leather being stuffed with maille, how would this be done? the maille sewn to it or the maille actually stuffed in the tubes of fabric.

Thank you fro your help,

Aaron

[Cet]

Tube stuffing seems to be largely a myth. Every extant pice of paded material asociated with armour that I've seen is quilted: many layers joined by stitching.

As far as enclosing the mail in fabric I'd secure it with a running stitch through the fabric layers.

[T. Finkas]

Yeah, as far as we can tell "stuffed with maille" means a multi-layered (quilted) cloth garment interlined with a layer of maille. That's normal linked mail. The cloth would be quilted onto both sides of it.

[Armoured Air Bear]

T. Finkas I understand now than you. and also thank you cet for that peice of advice.


Aaron