Things You Would Not Believe at a Reenactment

[Cap'n Atli]

There are some things that you might see at a reenactment that might be considered a stretch. It's fine by me as long as it's backed by sufficient logic (such as "used by Romans, used by Normans, possibly used by Anglo-Saxons").

Then you come across an actual artifact that you could never conceive of for the time and place you're reenacting, such as this Anglo-Saxon sword pommel at the British Museum:

http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/compa ... 276887.jpg

I'ts like the mail jewelry; if someone showed up in the camp with it, you'd discretely ask them to leave it in the car!

So, anybody have any other favorites?

Edited for fumble-fingerdness...

[mordreth]

Bomba Bomba
Bomba Bomba

Finally documentation for my scandinavian latino persona

[Captain Jamie]

That is so cool Cap'n Atli!

Captain Jamie

[Gwydion Caithnes]

Thing looks like a Celtic diaphragm...

[Talbot]

That is amazing!. I would never buy that as real. It even has a Thor's hammer like shape in it. Pure fantasy!

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

When I first saw this thing, it hit me between the eyes like a hammer, all right. Massive cognitive dissonance. "HOW CAN THAT BE REAL? THAT CAN'T BE MODERN! HOW CAN THAT BE REAL? NO WAY THAT'S MODERN!" etc, etc. I think it must have come from the REAL Tolkien world, and I'm not talking about the movies. Modern fantasy stuff just doesn't have that wild mastery, that subtle total fluidity of form. We haven't seen that since Art Nouveau. Reminds me of some cleaning and repair work that I was doing on a 'Maximilian' harness, which had been a bitterly vexing chore, until my client sent me one of the arms, which had floating couters. I pulled the couter out of the box, and thought, 'WHAT THE... Victorian? A form like that can't be real, never ever seen one shaped like this..." Then I turned laid it down on its 'against the body' side, looked at it, and it took my breath away. It was one of the finest abstract works of sculpture I've ever seen. It was real alright. I wish I knew who made it; one crazy, gutsy guy.

[Alcyoneus]

No pics for us, James?

Unbelievables:

The "Scandinavian" Buddha. (and remember, one group has a "only one Buddha per reenactment gig" rule)

The statue of Lakshmi found in Pompeii.

Anything by Negroli.

The 'tribal' etching on the L pauldron on A 50 in the Wallace Collection.

There is a three book textbook series on Heinrich der Lowe (Henry the Lion) i n Germany, one of the books that I saw on ebay had a wooden sculpture, ostensibly from the period that was so smooth and abstract I had trouble believing it was original. I wish I'd had the money when I saw it on ebay.

[T. Finkas]

This is a fun topic!

Regarding the Scythian Axe that MRL repro'd a few years ago. I saw it and thought "No way, it looks like it came out of a Boris painting. But it is very true to the original artifact (the axe head that is--I still don't know about the haft treatment).

And I've always though "WTF?" when I see that German Branch Sword. It's a cool sword (and of course it's authentic---I've seen photos of the original artifact) but I am not familiar with anything remotely similar in that period. It stikes me as a really odd duck!

Cheers,
Tim

[Baron Alejandro]

No pics for us, James?

Unbelievables:

The "Scandinavian" Buddha. (and remember, one group has a "only one Buddha per reenactment gig" rule)

The statue of Lakshmi found in Pompeii.

Anything by Negroli.

The 'tribal' etching on the L pauldron on A 50 in the Wallace Collection.

There is a three book textbook series on Heinrich der Lowe (Henry the Lion) i n Germany, one of the books that I saw on ebay had a wooden sculpture, ostensibly from the period that was so smooth and abstract I had trouble believing it was original. I wish I'd had the money when I saw it on ebay.

I've never heard of any of these, Alcy! Are there pics anywhere?

[Thomas Powers]

Cariadoc has mentioned documenting a plaid garment from the middle east that he refuses to replicate because of the keltistani confusion it would cause.

Also a mug that looks like a common commercial coffee cup.

As to the twig sword; IIRC the Wallace Collection has one similiar but with "thorns" raised from the branches.

thomas

[Alcyoneus]

No pics for us, James?

Unbelievables:

The "Scandinavian" Buddha. (and remember, one group has a "only one Buddha per reenactment gig" rule)

The statue of Lakshmi found in Pompeii.

Anything by Negroli.

The 'tribal' etching on the L pauldron on A 50 in the Wallace Collection.

There is a three book textbook series on Heinrich der Lowe (Henry the Lion) i n Germany, one of the books that I saw on ebay had a wooden sculpture, ostensibly from the period that was so smooth and abstract I had trouble believing it was original. I wish I'd had the money when I saw it on ebay.

I've never heard of any of these, Alcy! Are there pics anywhere?

http://www.asianart.com/forum/takaki/dozen/Dozenns.htm

In July, 1954, a small bronze buddha was unearthed in Helgö in Ekerö Island in Lake Mälaren in Sweden, when archeologists were searching and digging a Viking ruin. Now, in National Historical Museum, Stockholm. Prof. Namio Egami: a famous japanese archeologist about ancient nomad gazed it a few days after its descovery.

I quote a long scription from the original report. "The face is finely drawn with elbows and mouth inlaid with dark substance: eyes inlaid with turquoise(?) and on the right eye an irregular red colour; caste-mark of gold in the middle of the forehead; the ears have much drawn down lobes; the hair is ring punched and at the very top a small semi-globular calotte is placed; the neck has two parallel furrows (fat calluses)... The back has been more summarily modeled. An extra plate with holes at the neck. an indication of a tap between the shoulders and a riveting hole at the foot of the back of the lotus throne indicate that the figure has leant against a decorated backpiece. At both elbows there are extra applied square bronze plates (repairs?). At the discovery, there was round the neck and round the wrist a leather-strap 0.06 cm W. with folded and bent borders. Measures H. 8.4, greatest W. (the Throne) 6.4.Site M 34;-12"

Ref. W.Holmqvist ed., Excavations at Helgö, I, report for 1954-56, Stockholm

The condition unearthed.

The leather strap shows that the owner (a Viking) regarded this bronze a talisman/amulet. The repairs are unskilled. Maybe done by foreign craftsmen (Russian?). On the style this buddha may be made in Swat or Kasimir: both are neighbours, but Swat is in Pakistan and Kasimir in India. Scholars think its date A.D. 8-9th century. The route to scandinavia is said "Amber route" , which transport amber from north and silk and others to north through Russian rivers and stepps. I guess river transportation should have been important.

I imagine over 5,000 km voyage of a Viking with a buddha with some fancy.


Example of Negroli's work:


Image of the Lakshmi statue found in Pompeii (it is National Archaeological Museum (Museo Archeologico Nazionale)
in Naples):

[Gobae]

Combination Hammer/pry bar. IIRC this was a Greek find.

The head is a fairly typical claw hammer head. But, the handle is made from iron as well, and ends in a pry-bar.

I'm still looking for the pictures I saw of this. It looks just like the early 1900 models, when the idea resurfaced.

[Talbot]

I'm laid up and cannot get to my pics but here are two.

There is a 14th century carved bone buckle with a skull on it. It is pure fantasy.

There is a Roman "swiss army knife". Maybe one of the Roman guys here will be able to point us to pictures.

[Alcyoneus]

I used to have a pic of one of those knives...lyre shaped side plates were on this one, and I think it had 5-7 attachments.

[Ny Bjorn]

Combination Hammer/pry bar. IIRC this was a Greek find.

Follow this link for a similar find - though it's 14th C Swedish.

/N B

[IvarH]

Ivar here,

There are always the pink and green plaid, parti-coloured livery tunics in the 14th C. Assisi church fresco depicting the knighting of St Martin:

http://gallery.euroweb.hu/art/s/simone/ ... knight.jpg

Not at a reenactment but in a museum: When I was a docent at the Germanische National Museum in Nuremberg many years ago, I had a very hard time convincing American visitors of the authenticity of the 1491 Beheim globe of the world. After all, people believed the world was flat before Columbus proved it was round in 1492...

Ivar Hakonarson

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

It's even worse when you're trying to convince someone who MAJORED in history in college. I felt like yelling, "GET YER MONEY BACK!"

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

Wait, how was he going to find India/Asia (which is a reason they are called INDians), which was on the other side of the hypothetical "flat" map, without them knowing the world was round? Everyone has a lot of fun answering that one.

[Laurie Wise]

Beautiful closeup of that Pommel....thanks!

There are always artists who just leave the usual boundaries behind. To let their "fancies" fly. Also kudos to the ones who could appreciate such genius to commission and support work like this. I only wished more of this sword was found.

As for "booklarning"....there are more then enough History/Art majors whose brains have been fossilized by University instructors who think they know everything. Who refuse to change their views even if the reality was presented and nailed to their foreheads.

As for the Buddha, sheesh......it wasnt that long ago Vikings were just a bunch of redneck, meadswilling, monestary burning, heathen barbarians. Who were afraid to go sailing off the edge of the world. If you take Hollywood's "The Vikings" version and Orson Welles' voiceover seriously. Yet Edison Marshall, who wrote the book "The Vikings" was based on knew better from extensive research and made sure YOU knew it.

As for Negroli family, their art says it all.

[Ambrose]

Aristotle suggested that the Earth was round sometime before 350 B.C. do to the lunar eclipse and Eratosthenes estimated the circumference of the Earth using the angles of shadows. It may not have been commonly accepted but it was know.

[Egfroth]

In fact it was commonly accepted as well. The idea that people in the Middle Ages believed the earth was flat was first mooted by Washington Irving in the 19th century, and was intended contemptuously. Look at the contemporary records and accounts and you'll find people generally accepted that the world was a sphere - which why kings had the orb as one of their symbols - symbolising dominion over the world. Read Dante's Inferno, for heaven's sake - he was describing the world as spherical at the end of the 13th century.

And you can see the hammers here and here - they're from the shipwreck find at Serçe Liman 1 off southern Turkey, and now held in the Maritime museum at Bodrum (which was Halicarnassus, where the original Mausoleum was - until the Knights Hospitaller pulled it down to build a fortress in the 15th century).

I'd like to add my own - the 11th century Anglo-Saxon electric guitar and the bugs bunny gargoyle. And WHAT is that woman on the left doing . . . ???

[Nick D]

As for "booklarning"....there are more then enough History/Art majors whose brains have been fossilized by University instructors who think they know everything. Who refuse to change their views even if the reality was presented and nailed to their foreheads.

Speaking as one of those "fossilized" University instructed History graduates, if there was anything I learned it's that I'll never have all the pieces of the puzzle, and to take into consideration all the evidence.

[Tigernach]

WOO-HOO! The woman is a 12th C. French Waterspout????

There's a story here.... In Ireland this figure is called a Sheela-na-Gig; she also appears on Christian churches- a lot of them! And is a figure much discussed.

If she is a gargoyle, then the assumption can be that she is a demonic figure, sitting in the rain, miserably on the outside of the Church ( as opposed to the depiction of saints and angels on the inside, the Hose of God, the Portal to heaven...

There is also in Ireland a traditon of the sight of a woman's breasts and private parts quelling the warriors' strength and ardor for battle. It has been suggested that this is the reason for the placement of the Sheela-na-Gig on the outside of the Irish churches. To find this representation in a French 12th C. context suggsts both a larger context and a re-evaluation of the meaning of the Sheela-na-Gig.

[Egfroth]

I just like the idea of the church-going public unknowingly being p*ssed on from a great height . . . .

[Hotspur]

I've always been a fan of the mosaic of bikini-clad women from the Villa Romana del Casale, near Piaza Armerina, in Sicily.

Romans in bikinis, o.k. But playing frisbee, jogging with handweights, and playing with a multi-colored beachball is a little too strange.


(I see to be able to attach only thumbnails...do an image search on "Villa Romana del Casale" to see them in their full glory)

[David Blackmane]

I think if Romans can go to China sometime around Christ's existence, then a Buddha statue could show up in Scandinavia 800 years later.....

[Ingvarr]

If you are just making the point that people traveled and there was interaction between peoples, then yep. If you are saying that the Buddha statue went to Scandinavia through Rome, from China, I don't think it's necessarily the most likely scenario. Around 0 CE, Buddhism didn't exist in China. Over the next 800 years, it did develop and spread quite a bit throughout China as well as other parts of Asia, but the statue doesn't look Chinese to me. Seems more likely to me that somebody found Buddha in or around India. Given the fairly fickle nature of Norse worship, it could well have belonged to the first Northern European Buddhist.

[Alcyoneus]

Circa 250BC, Prince Asoka sent Buddhist missionaries to Greece, as well as Egypt. That is literally written in stone.
http://www.thenagain.info/Classes/Sources/Asoka.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Buddhist_monasticism

Now wouldn't that be a trip...a personna of a Greek Buddhist monk. Monasteries(male or female) are a Buddhist invention.


The route that particular Buddha could have been direct, or indirect as a pretty trinket that went from hand-to-hand in trade, or as a gift. There is no way to tell.

[Ivo]

Humm...I have posted this several times, I´m afraid, but go get George Cameron Stone´s "Glossary of Arms and Armour..." (Dover Publications, dirt cheap). There you have fancy designs by the truckload. I am pretty convinced they used this book to make the armour for "Willow", for most of the armour used in this flick is historical stuff.

Luristan weapons are striking designs, too. Just look at all those fancy bronze clubs, axes and stuff. Scythian stuff is astonishing, too, many fantasy designers could borrow from their decorative standard tips.

As to fun stuff- a fellow I know tweaked the picture of a pilgrim badge the shape of a door (holy sepulchre or stuff) and filled in the logo of "Dixi" portaloos.
A popular hoot is to put Hägar the Horrible and Lucky Eddie into pictures of the Bayeux Tapestry.
There´s a lawnmower in a 14th century manuscript.
And another that looks like people on a castle wall waving cellphones.

No pictures, so sorry, they´re on the other computer, and my home network isn´t set up yet.

Regards

Ivo

[David Blackmane]

Ingvarr, I'm just suggesting that it was a two-way street. I mean, the Silk Road provided far more contact between Asia-Europe than most people know about.

There have been Arabic coins found in Viking hoards, so a small Buddha statue making it's way to Scandinavia fom India isn't far fetched.

[Ny Bjorn]

There's a rather thorough report on the Helgö Buddha in "Excavations at Helgö. 16, Exotic and sacral finds from Helgö" (Stockholm 2004, ISBN 91-7402-339-X). You find it in the paper "The Buddha found at Helgö" by Bo Gyllensvärd.

/N B

[Ny Bjorn]

There's a rather thorough report on the Helgö Buddha in "Excavations at Helgö. 16, Exotic and sacral finds from Helgö" (Stockholm 2004, ISBN 91-7402-339-X). You find it in the paper "The Buddha found at Helgö" by Bo Gyllensvärd.

/N B

[terribleCabbage]

There´s a lawnmower in a 14th century manuscript.
And another that looks like people on a castle wall waving cellphones.

No pictures, so sorry, they´re on the other computer, and my home network isn´t set up yet.

The masses grow impatient. Pictures are required.

[Ingvarr]

Ingvarr, I'm just suggesting that it was a two-way street. I mean, the Silk Road provided far more contact between Asia-Europe than most people know about.

There have been Arabic coins found in Viking hoards, so a small Buddha statue making it's way to Scandinavia fom India isn't far fetched.

OK, that's what I figured. Definitely seems pretty reasonable to me.

Ny Björn, thanks for the source.

[Alcyoneus]

There were no native sources of silver in Scandinavia at the time, and the Arabic coins were there as silver sources (fur, amber, walrus ivory moves South, silver coins come back), not because Arabs were running the convenience stores.