To Stainless or not to Stainless that is the question....

[Glaukos the Athenian]

So,

Gentles all.. is stainless armor, headgear truly worth the difference in price? How does the protection against impact compare at similar gauges and quality?
Are mild steel helmets stronger/weaker than stainless steel one?
Body armor?

Thanks!!

Rowan (the inquisitve)

[Oswyn_de_Wulferton]

Generally, Stainless is considered to be 1 to 2 gauges stronger than the same gauge in mild. You also dont have to worry about rust. It is a bit shinier, which to some looks ahistorical. It is a lot harder to work, which is why armourers charge higher prices.

[mattmaus]

depends on who you ask.

Stainless work hardens more than mild. A lot more.

That's not really why I'd ever get it. Work hardening is... unreliable in my opinion. If I make you a stainless helm, I really can't test it myself to give you an ASM standard or anything on how hard it is.

If you want tougher lighter armor, go for spring steel.

Stainless just rusts less than mild. That's the big draw to it. Especialy if you're somewhere humid.

Generaly speaking, armor made from stainless is 2 gauges thinner than it is in mild. This notion probably comes from most of the tools used to build armor have rated capacities 2 gauges thinner than they are for mild. My power shear for example, is pretty much 10 gauge mild, 12 gauge stainless.

[Stonekeep]

Generally, Stainless is considered to be 1 to 2 gauges stronger than the same gauge in mild. You also dont have to worry about rust. It is a bit shinier, which to some looks ahistorical. It is a lot harder to work, which is why armourers charge higher prices.

Well all of that and the fact the materials cost 4 times as much...

Only thing I will disagree on is I dont make shiny stainless armor. We finish it to look just like mild steel. I can make an elbow or knee cop in stainless and place it next to a mild steel one and I cant tell the difference at 3 feet, UNTIL I pick them up and the steel one is much heavier. Because its so hard to tell our stainless from mild steel we have magnets placed all over the shop and in the shipping building. (magnet does not attach to stainless and is the best test)

[SirBrand]

Stainless, IMO is a hands down choice for fighting armour over steel.

Stainless doesn't just rust less, it almost doesn't rust at all, especially if it's polished at all. Trust me, you get done with a hard days fighting, or even just at practice, the last thing you want to do is clean your armour off each and every time. Steel helms are ok, but if you have a choice...

Stainless is stronger, it's harder to cut, to work and to dent. I sometimes go one gauge lighter on a stainless helm if weight is an issue, but normally I try to use the same gauge as mild steel helms. 1 gauge lighter is ok, 2 gauges lighter in stainless does not offer nearly the same dent resistance IMO as mild steel 2 gauges thicker. I've been there, used it all in combat. 18 gauge is the lightest I would go on body pieces and 14 gauge on helms.

Spring steel is an option, but the home heat treat used by many armourers is unreliable, often causing spring steel pieces to dent anyways or worse, crack. Professionally heat treated spring steel armour is wonderful, but it still rusts and is normally twice the price of two stainless items.

[MacGowan Metals]

I don't know Mike, I saw a set of your paulderons this weekend and right off knew it was stainless, just by the look of them. Stainless just has an odd sheen, depth, something to it that stands out to me. Even if its brushed.

But on to the matter at hand, Stainless is for those who don't want to take the time to clean/maintain their armour as much as is needed. Which is understandable considering this is a hobby for most folks.

Jason

[Stonekeep]

I don't know Mike, I saw a set of your paulderons this weekend and right off knew it was stainless, just by the look of them. Stainless just has an odd sheen, depth, something to it that stands out to me. Even if its brushed.

But on to the matter at hand, Stainless is for those who don't want to take the time to clean/maintain their armour as much as is needed. Which is understandable considering this is a hobby for most folks.

Jason

Yea, on less hammerworked pieces its a lot easier to tell. With all the pieces in those, none of them is worked very much. The top three pieces are only slightly dished and the lames are rolled through a 16 gauge roller. The spaulders would be a different story, and of course cops. Id have to admit though, on 6 piece pauldrons I dont have too hard a time telling even though they are supposed to rough them up before final brushing.
Also, on crs pieces that are not brand new, and have set on the shelf for a month or so covered in oil, they turn a darker gray. You can almost tell their age by the color.

[Stonekeep]

If you are going to cross over into some of the Live Steel groups, they do not accept stainless. I had a guy who had to return his entire kit and order it in steel because he failed to ask them what he needed.

[mattmaus]

If you are going to cross over into some of the Live Steel groups, they do not accept stainless. I had a guy who had to return his entire kit and order it in steel because he failed to ask them what he needed.

I don't know that it would so much be a 'live steel' vs. 'living history'. Stainless looks stainless. You can disguise it, but it does still have that look. To most folks it don't matter, to some it does. It would be my guess that this is why the stuff was returned.

Every group has their own weird armor regs. A lot of the larp groups have some of the stranger ones.

Takes me a step outside of my comfort zone when I get non SCA requests. I'm willing to take that step, but do my best to make sure I understand completely what they need. Send me a link to your groups rules and I'm a much happier camper. Sure you can overlook something, and I might too, but the chances of both of us overlooking the same rule are slim.

[Stonekeep]

Don't know but he called his group "Live Steel", and said they didnt accept stainless in any form. Most of those groups are small geographic groups arent they?

We accept any returns almost unconditionally (unused condition which Id think should go without saying), so I dont worry too much about it.
Only thing you have to do to return something to us is not like it.
Of course we dont make custom armor, which goes into a total different arena.

[Murdock]

Spring

spring spring

It's lighter it's tougher and it's more accurate than either stainless or mild.

yes you actually have to be slightly less lazy that a crackhead on welfare and maintain it a bit, it still rusts less than mild. I spary mine down with WD-40 after i fight and put the pieces in bags. I polish it about once every month to 6 weeks. Even Mirror bright stainless has to be repolished.

It's the best stuff out there...and in many cases it's lighter than corseponding plastic junk.

[cblackthorne]

I think a big factor for alot of people in deciding to buy stainless is where they live.

When I lived in New Mexico, my entire rig was mild or spring steel since the environment was easier on the armor.

When I moved to Missouri, my armor had an almost severe allergic reaction to the humidity. For that reason, I changed to stainless.

[mattmaus]

Spring

spring spring

it still rusts less than mild.

What flavor of spring are you using?

I've been contemplating getting started with it because it seems to be the way to go anymore...

was looking at 4130 because I found someplace that has it at a decent price, and in what I'd be looking for....

wondering if the chrome content of it might be contributing to the less rust.

[Alexander]

Servus!

A lot of the answer that you seek depends heavily on how much/often you plan on using the armour.

Stainless steel is fantastic for someone who uses their armour often (think SCA) as it is very low maintenance and tends to last a long time - making the most of your investment. Others have said that it does not have the correct look, particularly if highly polished and most, if not all, reenactment groups will not allow any form of stainless steel.

Spring steel is as close you can get to having real medieval armour. The thinness has the correct weight and the "spring" makes it resistant to dents and deformation. It has the right color, unlike stainless which is usually described as beign too "bright". It is also frightfully expensive, even when you can find someone to make armour for you from it. It will rust - so your maintenance levels will most likely be higher than if you had mild steel because most people become obsessive about maintenance when their suit of armour cost so much money. It would be acceptable to most, if not all, reenactment groups.

The choice is yours - think long and hard about what you plan on using the armour for before making any investment.

[Karl Helweg]

Stainless has higher resale value and the next owner down the line won't look like a dented rust bucket.

"When you take care of what is outside, what is outside will take care of you." - The Very Mysterious Sphinz

[Kel Rekuta]

Spring

spring spring

It's lighter it's tougher and it's more accurate than either stainless or mild.

I keep reading this. Please explain how medium carbon homogenous steel compounds are more accurate than low carbon homogenous steel compounds. Neither of them are wrought iron. The existance of some hardened medium to low carbon steel armours from 15thC Southern Germany somehow justifies making all kinds of 13th and 14thC armour from modern "spring" steel. Sorry, I don't get it.

Is it a better solution than stainless for LH quality looks and SCA sport armour durability for a given weight? Well yeah. I get that. But how is it more accurate?

[Trevor]

Spring

spring spring

It's lighter it's tougher and it's more accurate than either stainless or mild.

I'd agree with all of the above, but with a caveat for the accuracy part.

Most armor in our period was iron, or after 1300, sometimes mild steel.

Even the guages on most armor is comparable to our munitions stuff, i.e. 16 or 18 guage being most common.

Only the highest quality Milanese armors from the 15th century, and German armors from the 16th century, could be considered super thin, ultra light, high carbon, hardened steel like we have available at high end armorers today. Even German Gothic armor in the 15th century was almost all iron-with some of it being steel.



That being said, I can spot stainless from across the field. It looks, "whiter". And it's not rusty.

But most people can't tell the difference between brushed stainless and mild steel.

If you keep your sock drawer organized, you can probably keep up with the maintenance on regular steel. Otherwise, you have a choice between rusty armor and stainless like the rest of us mortals.