mail drape for a conical

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:07 am

Greetings all,

I just bought this helmet and plan to add a drape to it. My questions are where to get a premade riveted drape and how to modify a butted mail coif I already have to make a drape while I save for the riveted drape.

Also I'd be interested in any ideas or tips on making a leather drape like those at www.knotwolf.com (look around in the early period gallery).

Thanks,

audax

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:34 am

Since I made the helmet with that in mind...

The band around the back of the helmet is riveted to the outside of the bowl. The skirt/cheeks are on the inside. Leaving you a 12g gap under that band.

The idea was, stitch the mail to a leather strip, or use a leather drape, drill holes in the band/helmet slide the leather between, and push rivets through. Sorta like this...

[img]http://www.whitebatarmory.com/drapeinstal.jpg[/img]

This one:
[img]http://www.whitebatarmory.com/armor/helmets/spangen/norm002/norm00201.jpg[/img]

Was done with a coif from von sussen, stitched to a leather strip, and installed like the crude sketch above.

To modify the coif, I basicly just cut the rings at the top of the facial opening in the coif. The leather strips conform to the contours. Around the back it's a flat strip, but under the chin it's two pieces cut with the same outside edge as the faceplate.

I've not done a leather one, but depending on how long, and how much flare you wanted at the bottom, I would probably do it in halves, or quarters, wide at the bottom, and tapering up to the top.

Johann Lederer · Post by **Johann Lederer** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:12 am

Nice Helm Matt! I like the idea of having that area around a helm to do just what you suggested. Too bad I don't do that era/persona, I really like the helm.

Audax, As for the leather drape; I like what Knotwolf has done with the saracen looking persian helms, they do look great! I am wondering though, if you considered the heat factor? A leather drape will hold the heat in, with no real way to let it out. It would look cool as heck though. If you want, you can pattern an all leather coif/aventail by taking a plastic bag (garbage bag) and taping it on the helm in the area you want it with duct tape. and build the pattern with that. It forms well and once you have it where you want it in plastic bag, finish duct taping the bag all over and use it as a pattern. We use that method for alot of things in our Shire.

BTW, how did the stop sign work go?

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:41 pm

Heh, thanks Matt. That'll really help.

dheisey, I had considered the heat factor, I just like the look of the Knotwolf drapes and thought I'd inquire so I'd have the option. But since I've got a mail coif I can cut down, I'll probably do that. I't s a good look, too.

I was able to get the stop sign off without too much damage. I appreciate the help.

Laz · Post by **Laz** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:42 pm

Matt,

How much does one of your helms just like that cost? And how long would it take to do one? Baron Sir Arland has recommended your helms. he and I go way back.

Lodinn

Sixtus_Goetz · Post by **Sixtus_Goetz** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:05 am

while not Riveted.. Master Knuut's welded SS mail looks remarkably like rivited at a very close distance. I viewed both a SS and a Ti hauberk at the Warriors of History tourney and, untill very close inspection, could not tell the difference between welded and rivited. Master Knuut's SS aventails < not customized at all > are running $100 for a short one, his website is

http://weldedchainmail.com

Looking at Mattius's drawing, that looks like one of the best ways to do it. Since he did make it, he probibly has a very good idea of the best way to incorporate the drape

Cheers

P.S. Mattius and myself belong to the same household. They both do very good work.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:19 am

Sixtus_Goetz wrote:while not Riveted.. Master Knuut's welded SS mail looks remarkably like rivited at a very close distance. I viewed both a SS and a Ti hauberk at the Warriors of History tourney and, untill very close inspection, could not tell the difference between welded and rivited. Master Knuut's SS aventails < not customized at all > are running $100 for a short one, his website is

http://weldedchainmail.com

Looking at Mattius's drawing, that looks like one of the best ways to do it. Since he did make it, he probibly has a very good idea of the best way to incorporate the drape

Cheers

P.S. His Master is the same one I'm a Sargent of. They both do good work.

Thank, Sixtus. That looks like a better idea than the riveted for that price. Since you've handled the short aventails, do you think it is long enough to attach below the brow band/rim and still cover the shoulders a bit?

audax

Ceddie · Post by **Ceddie** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:16 am

Don't go with the short. I have one attached to my wife'e bascinet and it is fine for a small person from the BOTTOM of a helmet but to come from the crown would be too short.

Sixtus_Goetz · Post by **Sixtus_Goetz** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:14 am

Ceddie wrote:Don't go with the short. I have one attached to my wife'e bascinet and it is fine for a small person from the BOTTOM of a helmet but to come from the crown would be too short.

Thanks Ceddie,

I wouldn't have been able to answer the question adaquatly as I've handled the welded shirts but not the aventails. I just seen the price was rather reasonable and offered it up as an option.

Thanks

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:07 am

I THINK Adam at White Mountain armory uses Knuuts stuff. I could be wrong on that but I checked his site, and it says 'welded flat wire' on the ones with attatched drapes, and Knuut would pretty much be the only guy I know of doing that.

I was rather hoping Adam would put his 2 cents into this topic because he does a really nice job installing drapes.

Lodinn, this one went for $130. I am getting my butt kicked by life, and will probably be adjusting a good number of things upwards, but not by much. Maybe pay myself $3.25 an hour instead of $3.00

At any rate, I'm pretty well burried under stuff right now, and it would be a while.

white mountain armoury · Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:00 am

I use Knuuts maile, fora helm with a face plate like the helm in hte thread I use his standard aventail and cut out a square for the face.
The short aventail is basicly a mantle, i use this on sugarloafs and great helms. for helms woth the mail hanging from an occular i use a custome size, he pictures the 2 styles on his site. One is a straight maile curtain, hte other a more traditional aventail shape, the main diff is these last two are very very large, If the mail is to small in circumfrence it ends up pulled tight over the grill and just does not look right to me. These 2 large pieces solve that simply by being huge.
My method of attatchment is the same as the above posted image.
Hope this helps, you can see the diff styles use on my site and on Knuuts
I can not say enough about his mail, its simply excellent.

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:45 pm

Thanks much Adam.

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Nov 24, 2006 10:20 pm

Thanks to all you guys. I appreciate the help in presenting a more authentic appearance. And having gotten the helm in my hot little hands now, I'm really pleased with it and highly recommend Matt's work.

audax

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:46 pm

Cleaning up a few things....

anyone still need this sketch before I nuke it from the webspace?

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:40 pm

audax wrote:Since you've handled the short aventails, do you think it is long enough to attach below the brow band/rim and still cover the shoulders a bit?

audax

This is me in one of Knuut's short aventails. If I had it to do over, I'd probably go for the long, but I'm OK with it like this.

Mine is titanium, 'cause I'm kinda wussy about too much weight on my neck.

[img]http://www.kottr.com/d/32220-2/IMG_0201.JPG[/img]