I am endeavoring to make a European faced mempo for my helmets....well rather akin to a Roman Cavalry faceplate.
I have thought of several approaches and natural concerns to this piece, the most frequent being adequate strength and impact resistance etc etc.
From what I can recall seeing the Japanese fellas wearing their mempos is that its better for the thing to have uniform padding and touch up against the face (obviously it would need to be built proportionately larger to accomidate the padding) In doing so, a mighty spear thrust would not harm the wearer.....at least in theory. Wearing it close to the face also facilitates vision I should think.
The other concern is thickness....this cant dent! I am thinking of using tool steel and keeping it around 3/16" thick....Im not concerned about weight and its flushness will help allieviate this.
What I ask from you all is a candid discussion of the pros and cons of using a mempo.....and any tips or strong recommendations about anything you can think of....how you wear it....pros and cons...strapping the piece etc.
Thanks much
Drew
Japanese Gurus...soliciting MEMPO thoughts from you....
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Andrew Young
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Nissan Maxima
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Mine (made by Gruber) is 16 g raised 1050. it is mounted to a hockey goalie mask with the grill cut off.
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I am the SCA's middle finger.
www.clovenshield.org
www.clovenshield.org
Hi, I'm Raito, and I've been a menpo wearer for 20+ years. I've never been injured through a menpo (even that time when the first one rusted through, and the whole nose section busted loose.) (And unlike Nissan, I wear mine on my face) All this is my opinion gained through wearing menpo.
My current menpo is 1/16 stainless, with a mild nose that's filled in with weldment. I've had it for more than 15 years. It has never dented. My previous one was all mild, and rusted through from the inside after 10 years or so. I use exclusibely, 1/2" closed cell polyethylene foam, which I replace about every year (it will get grungy). Stainless is called for, because any non-stainless steel will rust out from the inside. Given that the padding is glued in, I would not trust paint. Yes, I have to repaint every 6 months or so, because paint doesn't stick well to the stainless.
My opinion is that my neck will break before the menpo will fail. I've taken hits hard enough in the face to throw me to the ground without damage to the menpo or my face.
In order to work correctly, a menpo must fit better than the usual fit of armour. In particular, it must bear on the face across the forehead, the jawline, and the cheekbones, It may bear on the cheeks and temples. It must not bear on the mouth, nose, or orbits. An ill-fitting menpo is just asking for injury.
The menpo I use is attached twice -- one from its own cords, and from the helmet cord. Its own cords run through 6 holes, 2 at the top, 2 at approximately the top of the cheekbone, and 2 at approximately the back of the jaw, all near the edge. The cord criscrosses through these holes, leaving ends through the lowest 2 holes, which then cross over at the base of the skull, come aorund, and tie in front, holding the chin in.
The helmet cord pulls up on the chin, also keeping it in place. It is much less stable without this cord.
As well as allowing decent vision (though less, especially peripherally, than a grill), having the mouth and nose close to holes makes beathing easy. This is partly paid for by the design keeping sweat on the face.
I believe that your plan to have it 3/16" thick is excessive.
My current menpo is 1/16 stainless, with a mild nose that's filled in with weldment. I've had it for more than 15 years. It has never dented. My previous one was all mild, and rusted through from the inside after 10 years or so. I use exclusibely, 1/2" closed cell polyethylene foam, which I replace about every year (it will get grungy). Stainless is called for, because any non-stainless steel will rust out from the inside. Given that the padding is glued in, I would not trust paint. Yes, I have to repaint every 6 months or so, because paint doesn't stick well to the stainless.
My opinion is that my neck will break before the menpo will fail. I've taken hits hard enough in the face to throw me to the ground without damage to the menpo or my face.
In order to work correctly, a menpo must fit better than the usual fit of armour. In particular, it must bear on the face across the forehead, the jawline, and the cheekbones, It may bear on the cheeks and temples. It must not bear on the mouth, nose, or orbits. An ill-fitting menpo is just asking for injury.
The menpo I use is attached twice -- one from its own cords, and from the helmet cord. Its own cords run through 6 holes, 2 at the top, 2 at approximately the top of the cheekbone, and 2 at approximately the back of the jaw, all near the edge. The cord criscrosses through these holes, leaving ends through the lowest 2 holes, which then cross over at the base of the skull, come aorund, and tie in front, holding the chin in.
The helmet cord pulls up on the chin, also keeping it in place. It is much less stable without this cord.
As well as allowing decent vision (though less, especially peripherally, than a grill), having the mouth and nose close to holes makes beathing easy. This is partly paid for by the design keeping sweat on the face.
I believe that your plan to have it 3/16" thick is excessive.
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Andrew Young
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Nissan Maxima ---great picture! I love seeing Japanese suits in combat.
raito ---excellant info, thanks for sharing.
Well Ive seen some 10 guage buckets dent with some greatsword blows....so please forgive me for being paranoid. I may go for high carbon though. Weight isnt an issue. Im a 6'7 body builder....seriously.
raito ---excellant info, thanks for sharing.
.My opinion is that my neck will break before the menpo will fail. I've taken hits hard enough in the face to throw me to the ground without damage to the menpo or my face
I believe that your plan to have it 3/16" thick is excessive.
Well Ive seen some 10 guage buckets dent with some greatsword blows....so please forgive me for being paranoid. I may go for high carbon though. Weight isnt an issue. Im a 6'7 body builder....seriously.
I'll also add that for SCA combat, it's usually best to make the menpo extend somewhat farther back than the originals. Mine just about covers my ears. I also wear my kabuto in that rakish sort of tipped-back style. This means that my shikoro is mostly decorative. If the front edge of it lifts, the menpo is ther to protect. If the back lifts, the tipped-back bowl comes down far enough to protect.
In my rig, I'd be hard pressed to hit the menpo with any sort of excessive force, other than from a thrust. The bill keeps out stuff from above, and the shikoro protects pretty well from the sides. There's just not a lot of way for a weapon to get in there with force. I suppose something weird could happen, but it hasn't yet.
The only trouble I really see with an ultra-heavy menpo is that it'll drag on the cords, making you tie it on tighter than necessary. This may be more true for one worn with a non-Japanese helmet style, which may not have the helmet lace in the same place. On rare occasions, I'll mess up putting the thing on, and the whole thing will want to pivot on the chin, leaving my forehead open. (Easy to fix, just re-tie, and it's very noticable before I put the helmet on over it)
In my rig, I'd be hard pressed to hit the menpo with any sort of excessive force, other than from a thrust. The bill keeps out stuff from above, and the shikoro protects pretty well from the sides. There's just not a lot of way for a weapon to get in there with force. I suppose something weird could happen, but it hasn't yet.
The only trouble I really see with an ultra-heavy menpo is that it'll drag on the cords, making you tie it on tighter than necessary. This may be more true for one worn with a non-Japanese helmet style, which may not have the helmet lace in the same place. On rare occasions, I'll mess up putting the thing on, and the whole thing will want to pivot on the chin, leaving my forehead open. (Easy to fix, just re-tie, and it's very noticable before I put the helmet on over it)