Mid 15th century brass decoration

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Kaos
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Mid 15th century brass decoration

Post by Kaos »

Hi everyone!

I'm in the process of designing / reconstructing a italian export harness and I am looking for period (1460) brass decoration examples, specifically the etching.

So far I haven't found anything but i do know it must have existed.

I'm hoping anyone can help me. :)
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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Post by Jeffrey Hedgecock »

You might be thinking of English. There are quite a few effigies with trim (possibly originally gilded), which is believed to be latten/copper alloy.

In the Italian vein, certain pieces in Mantua were apparently originally blackened with gilded borders, but the gilding wasn't done to applied strips of metal, just to the edges of the plates themselves. Some early pictures, pre-conservation, show this look. This treatment can also be seen on the wooden carved statues of St George and St Florian in the Sterzinger Altar in Germany, by Hans Multscher, mid 15th century. The saints are depicted in very plausible Italian armour, blackened with the gilded borders on certain plates.

Selective gilding is pretty doable with modern electroplating techniques, if you have the right gear. You'd have to find a black coating you can do selectively also though to create the full "look".
Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

Hi Jeffrey,

I'm partly thinking english, I learned that the armour I'm researching is an extreme example of italian export for the west european market.
In this case, they've been shipped to england.

I've found several Brasses with this kind of armour, the ones of Richard Quartermaine and Richard Willoughby.

[img]http://www.mbs-brasses.co.uk/images/YORKTHAME.gif[/img]
Image
Image

While searching for italian export armour, I did find effigies with brass/gilt trim, but these were all lacking detail of the decoration that should be on it, and this is the thing I'm looking for. :)
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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Post by Jeffrey Hedgecock »

How do you know that those lines on the edges of the plates indicate brass/copper alloy trim? Perhaps it's not so good to make that assumption?

Certain sculptural effigies, mostly strictly English styles not Italian export, pretty conclusively show applied borders, often with figured decoration and probably originally latten, but I don't think you can say the same for the two dimensional brasses you are working from. It's risky assuming that those lines -conclusively- indicated applied borders. They could just as easily be incised lines, sunken borders, or the selectively gilded borders I mentioned earlier.

I have pictures of 9 effigies of what are considered to be in the "Italo-Flemish" style (the Hungerford tomb is typical of these), which could very likely have been Italian export made for English clients, and none of them have any borders. It's my feeling that, Italian armourers working for English clients typically didn't do applied borders on their armours.

Have you considered that perhaps the reason the brasses don't show figuring on the trim is because they don't have any and that maybe the borders aren't applied?

Just some things to consider in the process of analyzing these depictions of armour.
Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

How do you know that those lines on the edges of the plates indicate brass/copper alloy trim? Perhaps it's not so good to make that assumption?

I don't know, but I'm trying to figure out what they are, while looking for armour in a similar style and seeing what they have instead.
On a basis of that, one can make a pretty educated guess.

For example:
The same with the left pauldron on this armour, you can interpret it in many ways. Looking at most italian armour, I interpreted it as a variation on the italian gardbrace theme with fluting, like this:
Image

Certain sculptural effigies, mostly strictly English styles not Italian export, pretty conclusively show applied borders, often with figured decoration and probably originally latten, but I don't think you can say the same for the two dimensional brasses you are working from. It's risky assuming that those lines -conclusively- indicated applied borders. They could just as easily be incised lines, sunken borders, or the selectively gilded borders I mentioned earlier.

That's what I wanted to know. My vision's got a bit blurred, because before speaking with Toby, I thought this was a style of english armour and interpreted it as one. And he didn't comment on the edges, I'll point that out below.

However, I really like to see the pictures of the Hungerford tomb effigy, for several reasons. First of all, my best friend wants his armour based on this effigy and second, the armourer who's just started on the legs told him there's an applied brass edge on the legs.

I'm also interested in the pictures of the other effigies, because it helps me in my study and making sure for me I'm doing the right thing.
What bothers me is that I've shown Toby my first vague designs, also featuring this bordering and he didn't comment on this. He corrected me on most style errors and approved on my second version as well.
Now I'm making detailed designs (with a few corrections, here and there), and I could really use the pictures to base my own opinion on, while taking experienced people's opinion along with it.

I appreciate your comments and concerns, thank you!
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Post by gr ben »

hi Jeffrey

i'm interested in the pictures of the hungerford tomb

pleas pm me
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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Post by Jeffrey Hedgecock »

I'm sorry, I didn't take the pictures so don't have rights to pass them on to others.

My apologies.

JH
Kaos
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Post by Kaos »

That's too bad..

I've discussed with my armourer and we've chosen for the non brass option. The plus side of this, is this is cheaper, so I can think about gilded hinges, buckles etc.
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