Hello all. I'm an SCA fighter with two years of spear and about a half year of pole arm under my belt. Recently I began training for sword and shield. Needless to say, I've developed a few bad habbits. First off, I use a Viking style sword of a relatively average leingth (average compared to other SCA swords I've seen), and a kite shield. My problems are that when fighting I often blind myself with my shield when I move to block with it. This normally results in my death. In fact, I'm having trouble with most of my shield work. My sword work is average I'd say for a newb to the stlye. Needs work, but for the moment, my shield use is in need of help. Any thoughts? Any and all advice will be welcome.
Thanks in advance.
New fighter needing advice....
Welcome to the Archive!
Now, for the suggestions...
Whatever I type here will be borderline on useless if I try and verbally describe a physical action.
So, could you please let all of us know where abouts you are located, and we might be able to set up a mentor for you? There are many senior fighters and even knights who are currently not fighting due to (a) armour or (b) health issues and would LOVE to take a new fighter under their wing and assist.
Please let us know where you are!
Now, that being said, there are people on the Archive (Duke Paul, Duke Gavin, etc...etc...etc...) who CAN describe physical action and get the point across. So don't dismiss everything out of hand.
I would still suggest a local mentor you can reach out and touch. I have several, but they end up going this-way and that-way with the PCS moves.
EDIT: Noe, here on the Archive would be a GREAT long distance mentor. He fights with a sword and Norman kite and does it very well...
Now, for the suggestions...
Whatever I type here will be borderline on useless if I try and verbally describe a physical action.
So, could you please let all of us know where abouts you are located, and we might be able to set up a mentor for you? There are many senior fighters and even knights who are currently not fighting due to (a) armour or (b) health issues and would LOVE to take a new fighter under their wing and assist.
Please let us know where you are!
Now, that being said, there are people on the Archive (Duke Paul, Duke Gavin, etc...etc...etc...) who CAN describe physical action and get the point across. So don't dismiss everything out of hand.
I would still suggest a local mentor you can reach out and touch. I have several, but they end up going this-way and that-way with the PCS moves.
EDIT: Noe, here on the Archive would be a GREAT long distance mentor. He fights with a sword and Norman kite and does it very well...
With respect,
-Aaron
-Aaron
Ron Broberg wrote: For someone who came into this cold and old and full of doubts, that's just half-bad!
Perhaps the single most fundamental concept of using a shield is getting it back to your guard position as fast as possible after every block.
This is a huge piece of your problem with blinding yourself - the shield is staying too long in a place it should be for only a moment.
I'm going to bet that you're using a closed form (shield between you and your opponent with the leading edge pulled in toward your sword shoulder, not aimed at your opponent's sword shoulder -aimed at your opponent's sword shoulder would be open form).
If you are using a closed form, opening up a bit can improve your vision without significantly reducing your defense. In fact, you'll find very few top level fighters these days using closed form shield work in single combat.
Spend some time in front of a mirror with your shield and study what opens up when you make a block. This will help give you an idea of where the next blow is likely to be going - you block the offside head and your shield leg opens up, get the shield back into guard quick because your leg is going to be sore if you don't
and so on and so forth.
This is a huge piece of your problem with blinding yourself - the shield is staying too long in a place it should be for only a moment.
I'm going to bet that you're using a closed form (shield between you and your opponent with the leading edge pulled in toward your sword shoulder, not aimed at your opponent's sword shoulder -aimed at your opponent's sword shoulder would be open form).
If you are using a closed form, opening up a bit can improve your vision without significantly reducing your defense. In fact, you'll find very few top level fighters these days using closed form shield work in single combat.
Spend some time in front of a mirror with your shield and study what opens up when you make a block. This will help give you an idea of where the next blow is likely to be going - you block the offside head and your shield leg opens up, get the shield back into guard quick because your leg is going to be sore if you don't
and so on and so forth.Gavin Kilkenny
Proprietor
Noble Lion Leather
hardened leather armour and sundry leather goods
www.noblelionleather.com
Proprietor
Noble Lion Leather
hardened leather armour and sundry leather goods
www.noblelionleather.com
Thanks for the advice so far......
Thanks so far for the advice that was given.....It's true...so far I am working mostly with a closed form style. I'll play around with opening it up a bit. Also, the mirror sugestion is a great idea thanks.
As to my location, I attend monday night fight practice in Endless Hills. (Carbondale, PA off Rt. 6)
Our Baron was kind enough to give me an evenings lesson, and I thank him for it. That said, I have a long way to go.
Thanks again for all the advice so far.
As to my location, I attend monday night fight practice in Endless Hills. (Carbondale, PA off Rt. 6)
Our Baron was kind enough to give me an evenings lesson, and I thank him for it. That said, I have a long way to go.
Thanks again for all the advice so far.
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Ceawlin Alreding
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"Blinding" is relative. As you move the shield so that it's between your face and your opponent, you can no longer see his head and shoulders; however, you can look down and check his feet -- or maybe even a hip. Use that to give you clues as you are in transition between positions.
Hark the moaning gulls around him,
Hark their shuddering calls of terror
At his fearful fighting pæan.
Hark their shuddering calls of terror
At his fearful fighting pæan.
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Hospitaller@Acre
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Many years ago I fought with a wooden kite. I had the same bad habit and I also would kick the tail out from time to time and exposed my leg. I made a second shield for practice and drilled 2 holes near mid thigh. I then attached a string through the shield and around my thigh only giving enough give to allow me to move the shield with limited blocking. After lots of pell work and practicing my problem was cured. Getting use to haveing the shield stop and pull my leg conditioned me not to over extend with head shots or move the tail off my leg...my two ducats worth..worked for me.
Edward
Edward
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freiman the minstrel
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- Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2001 2:01 am
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Ulfkell,
Welcome to my forte'! I feel so big and strong and manly and virile and all sorts of good things when I actually know what I am talking about.
OK, what I am hearing you say is that you are blinding yourself with your shield. You use your shield to block a basic shot and your shield blocks your vision. More experienced fighters have figured this out, and throw a basic shot as a "set up" You block with your norman shield, and by the time you have recovered, they have taken your leg, or worse yet, they have taken your head while you are recovering.
Is that what you are saying?
If it is, then you are NOT alone. Many of the greatest fighters in the SCA have had this problem. It is an important step. It is also a compliment from your fellow fighters, whether they realize it or not. They have realized that you are a threat, and they are working hard to beat you. I would bet that they are using that nasty, evil trick called "old age and treachery" to beat you. This is clearly nasty, evil, wicked cheating, only used by bad, bad people, who probably abuse houseplants. You can beat it with practice.
You have three options. I recommend that you use all three.
First, get a smaller shield. The one you picked (a Bayeaux sized kite) is right with a frankish or viking sword, but SCA fighting is not necessarily historically accurate. Use a smaller one for a while and you will find that this is less of a problem. Using a smaller shield will help you to be more economical with blocking, which can help solve this particular problem. Learn to be a miser on the field. Anything other than the minimum required to kill your opponent is an extravagance, and experienced opponents will make you pay for it.
Second, there is a "crosshairs drill". Adamstjohn from the archive taught me this. He is a kind of Master Yoda of SCA fighting. Right now, he is the Drachenwald Earl Marshal, and he is a drinking and lying buddy of mine. Get a training partner. At first, it doesn't matter who they are, but once you get the basics, you will want to find the best partner you can coerce into helping. Get into your full gear, and don your shield. This is an exercise to help you get used to the shield, and not to over block.
Hold the shield out and away from your body, and imagine that there is a tiny crosshair target marker that extends from the shield's "corner". Put that crosshair right between your opponent's eyes. Line up against your opponent and address them exactly as you would if you were fighting. Keep that crosshair there. Have them throw a collection of basic blows (slot shot, wrap, crossover head, offside body, leg, legwrap, thrust and crossover tippy eyeslot) at you. Watch how the shield held in a crosshair position stops some of the blows. Those blows you never have to worry about. Your shield in the default crosshair position blocks them.
Some blows (you will have to figure out what they are) have to be actively defended. Knowing is a big help.
The third drill is part of what is called (at least in Drachenwald) "Lazy Minstrel Style". You hold your weapon so that the crosshilt is just below your chin, and the blade extends upwards. Your training partner gently lays their sword on the side of your head, and you move your weapon to the side until the opponent's weapon no longer touches your head. This is the minimum that you can use to block an incoming blow. Have your training partner throw first one blow, then two, then many, with you blocking with the minimum amount of movement. Never block with your shield, always with the strong of the blade of your sword/
Good luck.
f
Welcome to my forte'! I feel so big and strong and manly and virile and all sorts of good things when I actually know what I am talking about.
OK, what I am hearing you say is that you are blinding yourself with your shield. You use your shield to block a basic shot and your shield blocks your vision. More experienced fighters have figured this out, and throw a basic shot as a "set up" You block with your norman shield, and by the time you have recovered, they have taken your leg, or worse yet, they have taken your head while you are recovering.
Is that what you are saying?
If it is, then you are NOT alone. Many of the greatest fighters in the SCA have had this problem. It is an important step. It is also a compliment from your fellow fighters, whether they realize it or not. They have realized that you are a threat, and they are working hard to beat you. I would bet that they are using that nasty, evil trick called "old age and treachery" to beat you. This is clearly nasty, evil, wicked cheating, only used by bad, bad people, who probably abuse houseplants. You can beat it with practice.
You have three options. I recommend that you use all three.
First, get a smaller shield. The one you picked (a Bayeaux sized kite) is right with a frankish or viking sword, but SCA fighting is not necessarily historically accurate. Use a smaller one for a while and you will find that this is less of a problem. Using a smaller shield will help you to be more economical with blocking, which can help solve this particular problem. Learn to be a miser on the field. Anything other than the minimum required to kill your opponent is an extravagance, and experienced opponents will make you pay for it.
Second, there is a "crosshairs drill". Adamstjohn from the archive taught me this. He is a kind of Master Yoda of SCA fighting. Right now, he is the Drachenwald Earl Marshal, and he is a drinking and lying buddy of mine. Get a training partner. At first, it doesn't matter who they are, but once you get the basics, you will want to find the best partner you can coerce into helping. Get into your full gear, and don your shield. This is an exercise to help you get used to the shield, and not to over block.
Hold the shield out and away from your body, and imagine that there is a tiny crosshair target marker that extends from the shield's "corner". Put that crosshair right between your opponent's eyes. Line up against your opponent and address them exactly as you would if you were fighting. Keep that crosshair there. Have them throw a collection of basic blows (slot shot, wrap, crossover head, offside body, leg, legwrap, thrust and crossover tippy eyeslot) at you. Watch how the shield held in a crosshair position stops some of the blows. Those blows you never have to worry about. Your shield in the default crosshair position blocks them.
Some blows (you will have to figure out what they are) have to be actively defended. Knowing is a big help.
The third drill is part of what is called (at least in Drachenwald) "Lazy Minstrel Style". You hold your weapon so that the crosshilt is just below your chin, and the blade extends upwards. Your training partner gently lays their sword on the side of your head, and you move your weapon to the side until the opponent's weapon no longer touches your head. This is the minimum that you can use to block an incoming blow. Have your training partner throw first one blow, then two, then many, with you blocking with the minimum amount of movement. Never block with your shield, always with the strong of the blade of your sword/
Good luck.
f
Act Your Rage
This is all great stuff....
OK, what I am hearing you say is that you are blinding yourself with your shield. You use your shield to block a basic shot and your shield blocks your vision. More experienced fighters have figured this out, and throw a basic shot as a "set up" You block with your norman shield, and by the time you have recovered, they have taken your leg, or worse yet, they have taken your head while you are recovering.
Is that what you are saying?
YES! That is exactly what I am saying. Again, thanks you all for your advice....I'll be making use of all of it. It's all really great stuff.
Is that what you are saying?
YES! That is exactly what I am saying. Again, thanks you all for your advice....I'll be making use of all of it. It's all really great stuff.
I've got some differences of opinion with Frieman's advice on a couple of points, and total agreement with one of them.
I don't understand how a smaller shield makes for more economical blocks, and don't see a benefit in changing shield size over a problem with defensive shield technique. I happen to be firmly of the opinion that most sword and shield fighters who start out with very large shields will find, over time, that they want to reduce the size of their shield - because it limits their offense! Defensively, big shields are easier than small shields. You don't have to be nearly as active in your defense and you can narrow your focus. This, in my opinion, makes it easier to learn the principles of shield work.
Sword blocking - I can't think of any good fighter I know who does not do it at all. Sometimes it's the only thing you've got that you can do to avoid being hit. But for now, while you're learning to work the shield, think of the sword as an offensive weapon - that is, after all, its primary purpose - and don't rely on it to cover your mistakes with the shield.
In my view, deliberately sword blocking at your current stage of development impedes both your shield work and your offensive sword work.
On the "cross-hairs" drill, I'm completely in agreement with Frieman that this is a valuable drill. I may steal the name, since I've been teaching my own variant for years but never had a catchy name for it
The purpose I use it for is different than what Frieman describes, but the two purposes are in concert and both are valuable lessons to learn.
The point I make with my variation on the drill is that you have to maintain the position of your shield relative to your head at all times.
Yes, it changes for blocking - now get it back where it belongs!
The specific point I use it for is the tendency people have to bob their shields as they walk. This fundamental technical flaw can stick with a fighter right up to the top of the game. Typically it manifests as the shield dropping each time the shield foot hits the ground. There's a Royal Peer of my acquaintance with whom I can tell, watching one bout, whether he is a threat today or going out of the tournament in three rounds...on his off days, his shield bobs.
So the point is, learn to move without moving the relative position of your shield. You can work this as part of the drill Frieman described, but you can also do it with no equipment and alone. Just take your shield stance, line up the index finger of your shield hand with some distant point, and move around, maintaining the alignment of your head, finger and that distant point. Walk around, run around, backwards, forwards, side to side. Drop downand rise back up, as though you were ducking something - but through it all, keep that alignment.
This teaches you to recognize how to keep the alignment and that is the secret to keeping the shield where it belongs - keeping that alignment.
I don't understand how a smaller shield makes for more economical blocks, and don't see a benefit in changing shield size over a problem with defensive shield technique. I happen to be firmly of the opinion that most sword and shield fighters who start out with very large shields will find, over time, that they want to reduce the size of their shield - because it limits their offense! Defensively, big shields are easier than small shields. You don't have to be nearly as active in your defense and you can narrow your focus. This, in my opinion, makes it easier to learn the principles of shield work.
Sword blocking - I can't think of any good fighter I know who does not do it at all. Sometimes it's the only thing you've got that you can do to avoid being hit. But for now, while you're learning to work the shield, think of the sword as an offensive weapon - that is, after all, its primary purpose - and don't rely on it to cover your mistakes with the shield.
In my view, deliberately sword blocking at your current stage of development impedes both your shield work and your offensive sword work.
On the "cross-hairs" drill, I'm completely in agreement with Frieman that this is a valuable drill. I may steal the name, since I've been teaching my own variant for years but never had a catchy name for it
The purpose I use it for is different than what Frieman describes, but the two purposes are in concert and both are valuable lessons to learn.
The point I make with my variation on the drill is that you have to maintain the position of your shield relative to your head at all times.
Yes, it changes for blocking - now get it back where it belongs!
The specific point I use it for is the tendency people have to bob their shields as they walk. This fundamental technical flaw can stick with a fighter right up to the top of the game. Typically it manifests as the shield dropping each time the shield foot hits the ground. There's a Royal Peer of my acquaintance with whom I can tell, watching one bout, whether he is a threat today or going out of the tournament in three rounds...on his off days, his shield bobs.
So the point is, learn to move without moving the relative position of your shield. You can work this as part of the drill Frieman described, but you can also do it with no equipment and alone. Just take your shield stance, line up the index finger of your shield hand with some distant point, and move around, maintaining the alignment of your head, finger and that distant point. Walk around, run around, backwards, forwards, side to side. Drop downand rise back up, as though you were ducking something - but through it all, keep that alignment.
This teaches you to recognize how to keep the alignment and that is the secret to keeping the shield where it belongs - keeping that alignment.
Gavin Kilkenny
Proprietor
Noble Lion Leather
hardened leather armour and sundry leather goods
www.noblelionleather.com
Proprietor
Noble Lion Leather
hardened leather armour and sundry leather goods
www.noblelionleather.com
Crosshairs drill
Just so that I am clear on what you are saying in reguards to the "crosshairs drill", when you say.....
Hold the shield out and away from your body, and imagine that there is a tiny crosshair target marker that extends from the shield's "corner"
I took this as standing in an open guard with the top corner closest to your partner as the "Corner" to place the "Crosshairs" on. Am I correct in this?
And yeah, footwork......using such a large shield I have been lazy as far as proper footwork, thinking that the shield would make it less important. Seeing myself type these words however makes me realize how truely dumb of a notion that is.
Again, thanks for all the advice. It's really helping.
Hold the shield out and away from your body, and imagine that there is a tiny crosshair target marker that extends from the shield's "corner"
I took this as standing in an open guard with the top corner closest to your partner as the "Corner" to place the "Crosshairs" on. Am I correct in this?
And yeah, footwork......using such a large shield I have been lazy as far as proper footwork, thinking that the shield would make it less important. Seeing myself type these words however makes me realize how truely dumb of a notion that is.
Again, thanks for all the advice. It's really helping.
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Sean Powell
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Holden MA
Hmmm,
I'm not a kite shield fighter so I can't say anything diffinitive but I think I know what the better (or at least average) kite-shield fighters do when the beat me. Blocking is about moving TWO body parts, the shield AND the head. When you block a shot coming from your left your head should be moving right, so at point of contact you can see your opponent past your shield and be hitting them. When you block a shot coming from your right your head should be moving left, so at point of contact you can see your opponent past your shield and be hitting them. When you block a shot coming down your head should be moving right or left, so at point of contact you can see your opponent past your shield and be hitting them.
Not only does the head motion give you visibility but it is often ducking away from the sword which scrubs some of the impact energy or you duck sideways and the shot which would have hit your head instead hits the shield before your shoulder. Best block: no be there.
I have no idea if this will help you or not but if you have decent experience fighting polearm you must have developed some body mechanics for dodging while blocking with a 1.25" stick of rattan. Try to tap into that skill set and see what it does for you.
Good luck,
Sean
I'm not a kite shield fighter so I can't say anything diffinitive but I think I know what the better (or at least average) kite-shield fighters do when the beat me. Blocking is about moving TWO body parts, the shield AND the head. When you block a shot coming from your left your head should be moving right, so at point of contact you can see your opponent past your shield and be hitting them. When you block a shot coming from your right your head should be moving left, so at point of contact you can see your opponent past your shield and be hitting them. When you block a shot coming down your head should be moving right or left, so at point of contact you can see your opponent past your shield and be hitting them.
Not only does the head motion give you visibility but it is often ducking away from the sword which scrubs some of the impact energy or you duck sideways and the shot which would have hit your head instead hits the shield before your shoulder. Best block: no be there.
I have no idea if this will help you or not but if you have decent experience fighting polearm you must have developed some body mechanics for dodging while blocking with a 1.25" stick of rattan. Try to tap into that skill set and see what it does for you.
Good luck,
Sean
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St. George
- Archive Member
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- Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:01 am
- Location: Charlotte, NC
Tips for Kite Shield users:
With a kite, you will find that you move your body around it, as much (or more) than you move it around. You should never really be moving it "up" so high either. Try working your head down towards it instead.
Lean your head INTO your shield (center point of helmet towards the shield maybe even on it), not away from it when "ducking" away from a blow.
Make sure that the back of your shield hand is touching or virtually touching the shield itself. If it is too fay away, it will upset the balance of your shield, making it work not as well as it could.
If your shield comes up so high that you block your eyes, look down to your opponent's feet. You will eventually learn what shots are being through, or could possible be thrown, from where and how their feet are set. This will help you move to the right defensive position. This also helps to make your opponent think you are psychic and "know" where they are going to swing at before they do. It pisses them off to no end, but makes you seem to be a god of defense.
Smaller movements of your shield are better movements of your shield. You want to move it as little as possible to get the block. Too much and your opponent will begin to exploit that.
There you go,
g-
With a kite, you will find that you move your body around it, as much (or more) than you move it around. You should never really be moving it "up" so high either. Try working your head down towards it instead.
Lean your head INTO your shield (center point of helmet towards the shield maybe even on it), not away from it when "ducking" away from a blow.
Make sure that the back of your shield hand is touching or virtually touching the shield itself. If it is too fay away, it will upset the balance of your shield, making it work not as well as it could.
If your shield comes up so high that you block your eyes, look down to your opponent's feet. You will eventually learn what shots are being through, or could possible be thrown, from where and how their feet are set. This will help you move to the right defensive position. This also helps to make your opponent think you are psychic and "know" where they are going to swing at before they do. It pisses them off to no end, but makes you seem to be a god of defense.
Smaller movements of your shield are better movements of your shield. You want to move it as little as possible to get the block. Too much and your opponent will begin to exploit that.
There you go,
g-
Re: Crosshairs drill
I'm a kite user, too. A big kite, 24x48. No matter what form you use, good footwork is essential to your progress.Ulfkell wrote:Just so that I am clear on what you are saying in reguards to the "crosshairs drill", when you say.....
Hold the shield out and away from your body, and imagine that there is a tiny crosshair target marker that extends from the shield's "corner"
I took this as standing in an open guard with the top corner closest to your partner as the "Corner" to place the "Crosshairs" on. Am I correct in this?
And yeah, footwork......using such a large shield I have been lazy as far as proper footwork, thinking that the shield would make it less important. Seeing myself type these words however makes me realize how truely dumb of a notion that is.
Again, thanks for all the advice. It's really helping.
Listen well to Duke Alaric.
Martel le Hardi
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
An update....
Well, last night was fight practice, and things went well. I reviewed everything everyone said before I went out on the floor and though I got hit more than I hit others, I did MUCH better.
Footwork, returning the shield to the guard quickly, I switched from closed form to open, and a week of sword and shield drills in my livingroom really helped.
Now I guess I'm down to just practice,practice,practice.
Thank you all for your advice, it was truely of great value to me.
Ulfkell.
Footwork, returning the shield to the guard quickly, I switched from closed form to open, and a week of sword and shield drills in my livingroom really helped.
Now I guess I'm down to just practice,practice,practice.
Thank you all for your advice, it was truely of great value to me.
Ulfkell.
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Stefan ap Llewelyn
- Archive Member
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- Location: West Dragonshire, ID, Drachenwald
Dance class....
No dance class that I know of, but there is Yoga I think.
I've been working on my footwork. Drills out of the I-33 manual, with my shield so as to adapt that to a kite. So far it's been helping.
Also been getting great tips at fight practice.
Also been working hard with http://www.bellatrix.org/school/.
That has been great!
I've been working on my footwork. Drills out of the I-33 manual, with my shield so as to adapt that to a kite. So far it's been helping.
Also been getting great tips at fight practice.
Also been working hard with http://www.bellatrix.org/school/.
That has been great!
Spear and kite shield
Ok, just because it's something I've been thinking about, I was wondering if there was anyone out there who fights (SCA) spear and kite shield?
My goal is to center my combat style in my persona....late Norse. (11th, 12th) Naturally given the original question, my focus for the moment is sword and Kite shield.....and until I have that in hand, that's what I'll be working on.
However, once that goal has been reached I'd like to work on spear and Kite....having the sword as my back up. According to my research, these weapon forms used in this way would be period.
Any thoughts?
My goal is to center my combat style in my persona....late Norse. (11th, 12th) Naturally given the original question, my focus for the moment is sword and Kite shield.....and until I have that in hand, that's what I'll be working on.
However, once that goal has been reached I'd like to work on spear and Kite....having the sword as my back up. According to my research, these weapon forms used in this way would be period.
Any thoughts?
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Baron Alejandro
- Obfuscatorial
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- Contact:
Re: Dance class....
Be careful about applying I.33 to SCA combat. It uses the sword to block with and only after (or in conjunction with that) does the shield play any role in blocking. I.33 also requires a very mobile shield that can be rapidly shifted. Your kite shield is probably closer to the hackenschilt (the enormous shields used in judicial dueling) and in that style you move around the shield rather than the other way around.Ulfkell wrote:No dance class that I know of, but there is Yoga I think.
I've been working on my footwork. Drills out of the I-33 manual, with my shield so as to adapt that to a kite. So far it's been helping.
Also been getting great tips at fight practice.
Also been working hard with http://www.bellatrix.org/school/.
That has been great!
Shield blocking should be a fairly minimal movement out of your standard position. If you are having to move your shield a lot, then work with an experienced fighter on modifying your basic stance. Also work on controlling your distance. Both of these will force your opponent to work around your defense which has the effect of slowing down his attacks.
"Success consists of getting up just one more time than you fall."
In my case, the shield isn't even a necessary element for the drill. You can do it just using your hand. The purpose of the exercise is to make you aware of the relative positioning of your hand and your head and what it takes to maintain that positioning while moving around.Baron Alejandro wrote:Freiman, Your Grace,
How would you modify your 'cross-hairs' drill for a round shield? Is that even possible?
Thanks.
Were I going to try the drill with a round shield, I would take my normal guard and make note of the alignment with my opponent (if necessary I would make a marking on the shield to help me maintain position since there's no corner to use as a guide). Then go ahead and do the drill, maintaining relative position.
btw, an effectively identical drill can be done with a greatsword, where you take a guard with your hands roughly at waist level, the point aimed at the opponent's face, and maintain that position while moving about and keep the point aligned while making various blocks.
Gavin Kilkenny
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Oswyn_de_Wulferton
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Re: Dance class....
I'll agree with the basics of your take on I.33 - it calls for sword blocking and requires a highly mobile shield - but not on the idea that these don't work for SCA fighting or are not adaptable to a kite shield.jester wrote:Be careful about applying I.33 to SCA combat. It uses the sword to block with and only after (or in conjunction with that) does the shield play any role in blocking. I.33 also requires a very mobile shield that can be rapidly shifted. Your kite shield is probably closer to the hackenschilt (the enormous shields used in judicial dueling) and in that style you move around the shield rather than the other way around.Ulfkell wrote:No dance class that I know of, but there is Yoga I think.
I've been working on my footwork. Drills out of the I-33 manual, with my shield so as to adapt that to a kite. So far it's been helping.
Also been getting great tips at fight practice.
Also been working hard with http://www.bellatrix.org/school/.
That has been great!
Shield blocking should be a fairly minimal movement out of your standard position. If you are having to move your shield a lot, then work with an experienced fighter on modifying your basic stance. Also work on controlling your distance. Both of these will force your opponent to work around your defense which has the effect of slowing down his attacks.
Are you getting the "move around the shield" idea from Hand, or some other source ? If it's from Hand, well, I think the reasoning there is fundamentally unsound and demonstrably so. I also don't see it as having any valid base in the historic record. I know, he makes arguments to the effect, I believe they can all be discounted.
Moving behind the shield and moving the shield to intercept are both valid techniques for blocking, whether with a buckler or a scutum. It's not an either or proposition, much more a matter of what else are you trying to do beyond this immediate block.
Gavin Kilkenny
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Your grace, I will not claim that a hackenschilt = a kite shield because that is patently false. I simply pointed out that historical techniques intended for sword and buckler may not translate well to SCA combat with a kite shield. My take on hackenschilt combat is based upon my examination of the period sources which, I believe, show the combatants largely planting their shields and fighting around them. This is not true in all cases as the shields do move, even when planted. I then used that analogy to suggest that Ulfkell might be well served if he took a long hard look at his basic stance to ensure it is sound and does not require him to make major movements for blocking.
"Success consists of getting up just one more time than you fall."
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Angusm0628
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Not quite sure if this will help you or not but here's my offering.
Years ago I had a young fighter that blinded himself with his shield, got it way too far away from him, what have you. His movements were wayyy exaggerated regarding the shield..
The solution. I made him hold a liter soda bottle in the armpit of his shieldarm.. Every time the bottle fell, he was called dead. Needless to say it didn't take very long for him to become conscious of his shield placement and movement. THen in short order, he didn't even have to think about it.
Just something to ponder...
Years ago I had a young fighter that blinded himself with his shield, got it way too far away from him, what have you. His movements were wayyy exaggerated regarding the shield..
The solution. I made him hold a liter soda bottle in the armpit of his shieldarm.. Every time the bottle fell, he was called dead. Needless to say it didn't take very long for him to become conscious of his shield placement and movement. THen in short order, he didn't even have to think about it.
Just something to ponder...
Angus MacClerie
I33 Vs Kite shield...
I must have been WAY unclear as to what I was doing in reguards to my training choices. When I said I was using the I33 to help me further my sword and kite shield progress, I was refering only to the footwork drills they sugested. Largely, I've been doing my best not to put myself into positions where I am forced to use my sword to block, and where I do move my shield....I try to do so as little as possible, returning it to my guard as quickly as possible. (As was so often sugested)
I've just found that the I33 book (Chivalry Bookshelf) I recieved had helpfull drills as to footwork. (I.e. the directions to step and how, what foot leads when, etc.)
I've just found that the I33 book (Chivalry Bookshelf) I recieved had helpfull drills as to footwork. (I.e. the directions to step and how, what foot leads when, etc.)
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Angusm0628
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Lothar qui et Sigimund
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Excellent idea. Thanks.Angusm0628 wrote:Not quite sure if this will help you or not but here's my offering.
Years ago I had a young fighter that blinded himself with his shield, got it way too far away from him, what have you. His movements were wayyy exaggerated regarding the shield..
The solution. I made him hold a liter soda bottle in the armpit of his shieldarm.. Every time the bottle fell, he was called dead. Needless to say it didn't take very long for him to become conscious of his shield placement and movement. THen in short order, he didn't even have to think about it.
Just something to ponder...
Martel le Hardi
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
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Angusm0628
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Audax,
I'd love to lay claim to it being my idea, but somewhere in the recesses of my muddled brain I think I heard about it from someone else and thought it was a good teaching aid. So I used it.
Spurius
Offer still stands if yer in the area Thursday evenings is our regular workshop night/practices.. Or some weekend you wanna play whackamole give me a holler...
March 8th is going to be a fairly intense armor shop as well. Consider this an invite if you need shop tools etc for use.
I'd love to lay claim to it being my idea, but somewhere in the recesses of my muddled brain I think I heard about it from someone else and thought it was a good teaching aid. So I used it.
Spurius
Offer still stands if yer in the area Thursday evenings is our regular workshop night/practices.. Or some weekend you wanna play whackamole give me a holler...
March 8th is going to be a fairly intense armor shop as well. Consider this an invite if you need shop tools etc for use.
Angus MacClerie
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Lothar qui et Sigimund
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Thanks, Angus. My job keeps me out in Ohio most of the time right now, but if I am back in the area at the time, I will definitely take you up on the offer. Unfortunately where I am based out of right now (Lancaster, OH), I can't find any practices. I bring my gear with me every time anyway though, just in case.