Klingbeil collection up for sale (14th & 15th C. plate e

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:01 pm

Here is a Private collection about which I have been gatheirng info for the last year. It is up for sale. It is a mix of real and fake pieces but some of the real stuff is amazing. There is a whol hell of a lot that is not pictured. Perhaps it has been pulled out as not for sale. I just thought I would share.

Those of you who have read Embleton's Medieval Soldier will recognize some pieces listed as from a "private collection." Now you knwo which one.

I will be trying to get to see the pieces or at least get info about it. I'll share what I get.

http://download.yousendit.com/68E2CAFC5F8377FC

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:24 pm

I thought I would post a few pics!

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:35 pm

Oh. My. God.

That collection has got to be worth the GNP of a small nation

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:40 pm

Talbot wrote:Here is a Private collection about which I have been gatheirng info for the last year. It is up for sale. It is a mix of real and fake pieces but some of the real stuff is amazing. There is a whol hell of a lot that is not pictured. Perhaps it has been pulled out as not for sale. I just thought I would share.

Damn. I guess I'll have to stop throwing those aluminum cans away for a bit...

Maybe I'll have the answer when the file is finished downloading, but... are the pieces properly identified as real or fake?

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:19 pm

Wow, Thanks Doug, I'm awestruck, Just the helmet crests alone blew me away....

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:51 pm

Alcyoneus wrote: Maybe I'll have the answer when the file is finished downloading, but... are the pieces properly identified as real or fake?

No, As I understand it, the owner firmly believes it is all real.

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:59 pm

He thinks ALL of it is real?

Hmmm. Some of that stuff is utterly amazing but.....

For example, the legs of that "full" 14th century rig are CLEARLY modern... and not even terribly convincing....

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:13 pm

Putting on my Indy Fedora:

"That belongs in a museum!!!"

I saw some really famous pieces there. I saw the Edward III sword. Some how, I'd like to see that go back to Blighty.

Aaron Schnatterly · Post by **Aaron Schnatterly** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:41 pm

Any idea how/when this is "on the block"?

I couldn't possibly have a prayer of grabbing anything major or famous, but there were a couple of pieces in there that I'd be tempted to see if I could swing... if you'll pardon the pun. Particularly, there were a couple of rondels and ballock daggers that caught my eye - when I could get past the fluted gothic distractions.

Oh... and there were a goodly number of falchions mixed in there, too...

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:47 pm

Swoooooooon.

There just ain't any words for this one. Even with the fakes. We could weasel them out, and mark them properly.

Who wants to start a collection to get these into the hands of the ARS?

Christopher

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:56 pm

Is there an officialy estimate on this stuff?

I'd gues multi-millions. Probably 8 figures.

Aaron Schnatterly · Post by **Aaron Schnatterly** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:07 pm

... there are two pavises in this picture that I could certainly find a very good home for...

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:28 pm

RenJunkie wrote:Swoooooooon.

There just ain't any words for this one. Even with the fakes. We could weasel them out, and mark them properly.

Who wants to start a collection to get these into the hands of the ARS?

Christopher

I'll contribute.

I should have more info soon

Cedri · Post by **Cedri** » Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:29 pm

I've always wanted an original piece!

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:25 am

What about that new segmented breastplate..... very interesting find.

Look at some of those helmets!!! The Armets, the Great Bascinet, what about the great helm hung up, looks like an earlier one, the two lovely helm decoratiosn and the painted shield! Doesn't that mid 15th suit look suprisingly like the Glasgow Avant suit? Ah I hope some of these go public instead of being hid somewhere!

RPM

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:44 am

I'm rather intrigued by the helmet with the vertical bargrill. Foreground, left side on the wall above the breastplate with the cross.

Not that everything in the whole room isn't intriguing, but that piece in particular looks... odd.

white mountain armoury · Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:15 am

the crests and shield sure are neat.
There is some rustly metal cop style torso protection when the get to the viking stuff, I would love to know more about it

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:35 am

Kilkenny wrote:I'm rather intrigued by the helmet with the vertical bargrill. Foreground, left side on the wall above the breastplate with the cross.

Not that everything in the whole room isn't intriguing, but that piece in particular looks... odd.

There are boat loads of those that survive. That one is absolutely typical of the form. They were made in Italy for a particular sort of club/shield fighting sport. The sport was popular in Pisa and called Giuoco del Ponte. It continued to be played up to 1807. The weapon and the defense were an arm mounted shield/club

http://www.comune.pisa.it/turismo/manif ... nte-gb.htm

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:08 am

Talbot wrote:
Kilkenny wrote:I'm rather intrigued by the helmet with the vertical bargrill. Foreground, left side on the wall above the breastplate with the cross.

Not that everything in the whole room isn't intriguing, but that piece in particular looks... odd.
There are boat loads of those that survive. That one is absolutely typical of the form. They were made in Italy for a particular sort of club/shield fighting sport. The sport was popular in Pisa and called Giuoco del Ponte. It continued to be played up to 1807. The weapon and the defense were an arm mounted shield/club

http://www.comune.pisa.it/turismo/manif ... nte-gb.htm

Thank you Doug. It's funny sometimes, just how very little is original. Even something sort of crazy like dressing up in armour and hitting one another with sticks is just one more old idea coming back around

Tailoress · Post by **Tailoress** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:02 pm

They were made in Italy for a particular sort of club/shield fighting sport.

"a particular sort of club/shield fighting sport" you say? What a proposterous concept. And yet, it all seems eerily familiar...

-Tasha

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:05 pm

Its like deja vu, all over again!

Nick D · Post by **Nick D** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 1:02 pm

Just out of curiosity, how does one save pictures from the powerpoint presentation as .jpegs? Is it possible?

I want to know more about the greathelms. There were at least three I saw in the first go-through.

white mountain armoury · Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:53 pm

I would hope a fine auction catalog is made.

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:18 pm

Tasha McG wrote:
They were made in Italy for a particular sort of club/shield fighting sport.
"a particular sort of club/shield fighting sport" you say? What a proposterous concept. And yet, it all seems eerily familiar...

-Tasha

I started writing a tongue in cheek section of my post above along those lines but realized that if I kept writing I would be late for church.

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Sun Feb 17, 2008 3:20 pm

Nick D wrote:Just out of curiosity, how does one save pictures from the powerpoint presentation as .jpegs? Is it possible?

I want to know more about the greathelms. There were at least three I saw in the first go-through.

I used the most current version of Power Point in conjunction with Photoshop CS3. With those two anything is possible. Beyond that I'm not sure.

Milesent · Post by **Milesent** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:28 am

Nick D wrote:Just out of curiosity, how does one save pictures from the powerpoint presentation as .jpegs? Is it possible?

If you have a powerpoint the image files should be on the slide and selectable so you can just highlight the image and use copy-paste to move it into Photoshop or Paint.

If you have a PDF or other non-editable document with a picture you want there's always (on a PC) the print screen button (or alt-Prnt Scrn to just get the window and not your whole desktop). Then open Paint, (or photoshop) create a new, blank image file and hit Ctrl-V to paste the image. Crop out what you don't want, save.

On a Mac it's even easier to print screen... trying to remember the key combo... uh... something control-apple-4? it gives you cross hairs and you can select the portion of your screen you want, it makes a cute snapshot noise and deposits an image file on your desktop (or default location).

Chris G. · Post by **Chris G.** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:22 am

Any idea when and where the auction or sale will take place?

Thomas H · Post by **Thomas H** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:57 pm

Aaron Schnatterly wrote:

... there are two pavises in this picture that I could certainly find a very good home for...

You'd have to kill me first

!!

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:14 pm

I have spoken with the agent. They are now trying to keep the collection in tact and sell it to a single buyer (possibly a museum)

At this point they have not selected an auction house or set a date for the sale. It may not even go up for auction and may be a private sale.

They are getting bombarded with calls form people all over he world since this went public asking for pictures. The do not have any more than what is in the power point. Please do not contact them looking for more.. If I get more I will share.

I'll keep you posted as we go along.

Brian W. Rainey · Post by **Brian W. Rainey** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:54 pm

RenJunkie wrote:Who wants to start a collection to get these into the hands of the ARS?

Christopher

While a grand idea, one that I particularly like....

It would be a sad demise. I can't imagine where we would house all of this in a proper environment (other than Doug's bsaement!

).

Personally, I could see ARS publshing the collection at some point in time. Assuming it stay as a whole (given the cost I doubt this would happen) and the final location made public (if sold to a private this might not happen).

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:38 pm

Its like deja vu, all over again!

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:08 pm

No, As I understand it, the owner firmly believes it is all real

Even the items which are obviously copies of existing, unique museum pieces? He really has convinced himself he owns the only other breastplate in existence in the style of Churburg #13? It's a shame he has such a nice pile of stuff and isn't all that educated about it.

I really want to believe in the authenticity of those von Pranck-esque crests, but they strike me as too good to be true.

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:55 am

Klaus the Red wrote:
No, As I understand it, the owner firmly believes it is all real
Even the items which are obviously copies of existing, unique museum pieces? He really has convinced himself he owns the only other breastplate in existence in the style of Churburg #13? It's a shame he has such a nice pile of stuff and isn't all that educated about it.

I really want to believe in the authenticity of those von Pranck-esque crests, but they strike me as too good to be true.

Klaus, what makes you so certain that the man doesn't own an authentic breastplate in the style of Churburg #13? Freely granted that there is lots of room for skepticism about an entire collection of this size being completely authentic, but I wouldn't rush to judgment just because a piece is very similar to a famous "one-of-a-kind" item.

Would be grand to have some provenance on the collection.

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:23 am

Klaus the Red wrote: I really want to believe in the authenticity of those von Pranck-esque crests, but they strike me as too good to be true.

As I understand it they may well be real. They are from a single group found in a walled up alcove or somethign similar. Sort of like the Chalcis find. Those in the know who have handled them apparently believe in them.

Tracy Justus · Post by **Tracy Justus** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:28 am

Where is this collection, Europe or US?

Klingbeil collection up for sale (14th & 15th C. plate e

Klingbeil collection up for sale (14th & 15th C. plate e

Re: Klingbeil collection up for sale

Re: Klingbeil collection up for sale