Painted helms?

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:45 am

I know nothing about them, except the extant ones I've seen in museums were 'rough from the hammer' and the paint job was to hide that.

Post some pics of cool looking painted helms! Historical, not SCA please.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:03 pm

try these:

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:08 pm

more:

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:13 pm

more

and 1 covered in Velvet:

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:39 pm

Those are just too cool for words.

Effingham

RenJunkie · Post by **RenJunkie** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:09 pm

Man, that's like, "make me weep" beautiful.

Were bascinets painted?

Christopher

RalphS · Post by **RalphS** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:21 pm

Baron Alejandro wrote:I know nothing about them, except the extant ones I've seen in museums were 'rough from the hammer' and the paint job was to hide that.

A matter of opinion, but I see the rough from the hammer more as a case of: "why bother grinding it off when you're going to paint it anyway, and the paint won't hold as good on blank metal as it does on the oxidised surface"

Beautiful pics by the way!

justus · Post by **justus** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:13 pm

Here are some.

Several of the helms in the Maj Bible might be painted, (or artistic licence)

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2282790318/" title="kettle helm by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2074/2282790318_5b20f67dee_m.jpg" width="240" height="195" alt="kettle helm"></a>

This is from the Histories of Outreme that I'm so fond of. Could be artistic license of course, but the idea of matching the helm to the heraldry and having "metal" colored helms on the same page makes me think these are accurate.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2282790864/" title="241116831_668664bce3_o by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2201/2282790864_a4bcdb034c.jpg" width="500" height="493" alt="241116831_668664bce3_o"></a>

I've been informed that this is a reproduction.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2282790212/" title="BB0543 by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2417/2282790212_96ac14320e_o.jpg" width="386" height="450" alt="BB0543"></a>

As is this of course.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2282000093/" title="damien-hospitalier-01 by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3127/2282000093_a678c97bdd_o.jpg" width="197" height="171" alt="damien-hospitalier-01"></a>

I think the idea of painting a helm both for rust prevention and for heraldic (and just plain artistic) purpose is pretty sound.

-Justus

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:05 pm

Certainly a number of them on the Bayeux Tapestry.

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:57 am

The Liber ad honorem Augusti of Peter of Eboli (c. 1195) certainly shows helmets painted with heraldic patterns. I'm a bit more wary of the Bayeux Tapestry, because of the Green Horse Syndrome.

To back up the Mispronouncy Bible for c. 1250, there's the English Vita Aedwardi of about the same time, which shows helmets with decorative patterning, presumably painted.

Oh, and in Spain there are murals depicting the conquest of Minorca that show (presumably) painted helmets (red and white stripes) as well. Again, around the mid 13th century IIRC.

I think this makes a pretty good prima facie case for painted helmets, at least as far back as the beginning of the 13th century.

Apart from the BT, I'm not really aware of anything much earlier.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:01 am

How late do they run? Any further than Aiden's fetish for pimped-out sallet?

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:01 pm

Baron Alejandro wrote:How late do they run? Any further than Aiden's fetish for pimped-out sallet?

Not so much as fetish as an addiciton. :twisted:

Most all I have seen (both period and repro) have all been a form of a Sallet. I DO have a pic of a repro open faced barbute that is covered in velvet.

justus · Post by **justus** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:02 pm

I forgot these!

Helms with heraldry matching their shields.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2284345594/" title="boars by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2402/2284345594_ebc612c588.jpg" width="440" height="500" alt="boars"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2284324834/" title="12th by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2405/2284324834_150a4a49fe_o.jpg" width="349" height="435" alt="12th"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2284324786/" title="109r by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2079/2284324786_544eee18c0_o.jpg" width="361" height="424" alt="109r"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2284345630/" title="bend by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3237/2284345630_fc5a0a78a8_o.jpg" width="272" height="382" alt="bend"></a>

The Spanish helms Egfroth mentioned

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2283537963/" title="Untitled-Scanned-09 by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2235/2283537963_c374650afe.jpg" width="413" height="500" alt="Untitled-Scanned-09"></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2284324540/" title="paintd hlms by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2130/2284324540_fa475dd669_o.jpg" width="427" height="196" alt="paintd hlms"></a>

and a great helm clearly painted to match the healdry.

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/syrjustus/2283538321/" title="Untitled-Scanned-07 by Justus Koshiol, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2111/2283538321_9d0fe3c718.jpg" width="438" height="500" alt="Untitled-Scanned-07"></a>

-Justus

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:12 pm

Egfroth wrote:The Liber ad honorem Augusti of Peter of Eboli (c. 1195) certainly shows helmets painted with heraldic patterns. I'm a bit more wary of the Bayeux Tapestry, because of the Green Horse Syndrome.

To back up the Mispronouncy Bible for c. 1250, there's the English Vita Aedwardi of about the same time, which shows helmets with decorative patterning, presumably painted.

Oh, and in Spain there are murals depicting the conquest of Minorca that show (presumably) painted helmets (red and white stripes) as well. Again, around the mid 13th century IIRC.

I think this makes a pretty good prima facie case for painted helmets, at least as far back as the beginning of the 13th century.

Apart from the BT, I'm not really aware of anything much earlier.

Maybe they had green horses in 1066.

(I keed, I keed.)

Jon Terris · Post by **Jon Terris** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:34 pm

IIRC Claude Blair cites the barbute as sometimes being covered in fabric too, he said that the extra bit of steel around the opening was to hold the fabric in place.

I've never seen a pic though!

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:29 pm

Jon Terris wrote:IIRC Claude Blair cites the barbute as sometimes being covered in fabric too, he said that the extra bit of steel around the opening was to hold the fabric in place.

I've never seen a pic though!

here is the repro:

Aaron Schnatterly · Post by **Aaron Schnatterly** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 4:03 pm

This one is close to what I have in mind for my own man-at-arms interpretation... I so want to do this... so, so badly...

And incorporate it into my own interpretation akin to what my friend Peter did with his:
[img]http://www.olofsgillet.org/images/olofsgillet_022.jpg[/img]

These painted helps have such a neat bit of character...

Painted helms?

Painted helms?

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