3/4 greaves

Blk_jouster · Post by **Blk_jouster** » Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:13 pm

While speaking with my knight recently, we were discussing styles of greaves. I had asked whethe or not there was ever a greave that had a half door on it so as to allow the inner calf to be left exposed. When I ride I like to feel the horse, and feel that a fully enclosed greave would not allow me the same feeling. So my question is did a greave like this exist in the 15th cent.? As my new harness is an Italian Export suit.

James Arlen Gillaspie · Tue Mar 25, 2008 10:32 pm

This is the 'gothic' equestrian at the Royal Armouries, UK. Highly unusual, though.

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:32 am

One of the harnesses in Mantova has such greaves as I think you're describing. IIRC, it dates to the first decade of the 16th century.

Andrew Young · Post by **Andrew Young** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 1:41 am

On this subject....I was thinking of frontal greaves....and the more I think of it, I cant recally many extant examples...only in art.

Mike England · Post by **Mike England** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:22 am

The greaves James posted are at Leeds and dated to the latter 15th century. They are a single piece with no door.

Check out the greaves on this harness recently completed by Jeff Hedgecock.
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=75380
A link inside the first post goes to a gallery with a couple shots of the greaves.

Jonathon Janusz · Post by **Jonathon Janusz** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:34 am

I don't have any historical evidence to share, but a friend of mine uses a set for jousting and they seem to work pretty well.

I think somebody said Shark made them, and they are a single piece - no door and strapped. The rest of the suit they were built with is c16th-ish.

Mike England · Post by **Mike England** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 8:12 am

Jonathon Janusz wrote:I don't have any historical evidence to share, but a friend of mine uses a set for jousting and they seem to work pretty well.

I think somebody said Shark made them, and they are a single piece - no door and strapped. The rest of the suit they were built with is c16th-ish.

The one jouster I know of who has a set of these from Shark is Shane Adams. I believe his actually have straps going across the inside similar to half chaps. His armour is typically made more for modern sport than historical reenactment.

There are no straps nor holes for such on the pair at Leeds

Realisticly greaves usually seem to be considered the trickiest piece of armour to reproduce and these which have to spring open a bit to allow the leg to be inserted whilst still firmly securing the lower leg once attached so they don't slide around, even more so.

Armourkris · Post by **Armourkris** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:09 am

they had greavs similar to that in turkey in the 15-16th century.
take a look here to see one
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/turkey/istanbu ... ndex1.html

they have it listed as an arm guard, but it is a greave. the part that would cover your hand actually should be covering your ankle

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:07 pm

Blk_jouster wrote:While speaking with my knight recently, we were discussing styles of greaves. I had asked whethe or not there was ever a greave that had a half door on it so as to allow the inner calf to be left exposed. When I ride I like to feel the horse, and feel that a fully enclosed greave would not allow me the same feeling. So my question is did a greave like this exist in the 15th cent.? As my new harness is an Italian Export suit.

Blk,
Although I've never ridden in armor, one of my customers told me that he can feel the horse well enough through his closed greaves. He says that the horse's body heat conducts conducts through the greaves. It works for him. It worked for our ancestors. I advise you to go with the typical thing. Go with closed greaves. Believe in our ancestors, and let them show you the way.
Mac

Geoffrey the Younger · Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:04 pm

black jouster,

There is a female jouster who is very particular about her riding equipment, and being able to have good contact with the horse. She has full greaves now, and has no problems whatsoever. -- I think you may know her.
I've found that just front greaves, or the type of greaves you are talking about will cut up/ bruise/ pinch your leg as they interact with the stirrup leather and the horse. And I know this from experience and the experience of one other jouster.
--Get full greaves! javascript:emoticon(':)')

Tom B. · Post by **Tom B.** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:44 pm

More shots from Leeds:

Tom

Tom B. · Post by **Tom B.** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:51 pm

More shots from Leeds:

Tom

Jonathon Janusz · Post by **Jonathon Janusz** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:49 pm

If Rod's lurking about here, I think he's got full greaves now with the harness Jiri made. Maybe he can chime in.

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:12 pm

Full greaves are probably the way to go. They are the most fun and they don't have an open edge hanging out to cut into your leathers. That said, there are several different styles of partial greaves that can be found in the 16th c. Many are a lot like a normal front plate with a small outside back plate hinged to it. This leaves the back inside of the leg open. This is another style that might be closer to what you are thinking about:

http://www.allenantiques.com/A-125.html

Covers the outside of the leg pretty nicely, but leaves the inside open. These are ex. Harding collection.

Wade

Blk_jouster · Post by **Blk_jouster** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:26 pm

I really appreciate all the input on this one thanks to all. I'm definately leaning toward not waivering from my period on this and going with full greaves, after hearing from all. Geoffrey yes I'm positive I know which female jouster you are refering to. :mrgreen:

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:24 pm

You can find greaves that have the horse-side trimmed out pretty commonly in armor of late 15th-16thC, there are a good number in Madrid. Philip II for sure. If you have access to Calvert's Spanish A&A, or Resplendence of the Spanish Monarchy you will find several pictures. Much of the high grade Spanish armor was made by Germans, so I'd be surprised if it was limited to Spanish greaves.

James Arlen Gillaspie · Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:06 am

Hmm, I wasn't aware the R.A. had 16th c. greaves on their 'gothic'. I don't know why they didn't just have Billy Radford make some and label them as restorations on the tag.

Tom B. · Post by **Tom B.** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:47 am

Are the RA greaves from the 16th century?
They say say they have the same unidentified maker's mark as the breastplate. The breast plate surely is 15th century.

Tom

wcallen · Post by **wcallen** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:54 pm

I didn't mean to say that the RA greaves are 16th c. I meant to say that there are a number of surviving 16th c. examples of partial greaves. They are ones I am more familiar with.

I did see the greaves at the RA. Reasonably enough, they didn't let me take the suit apart to look at the pieces (I didn't even ask), so I really don't know anything about them. They seem very odd. I haven't seen another example of a greave split at the middle of the front. The crease down the side is also atypical. IT wouldn't be the first piece I would copy if I were making greaves.

Wade

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