Lanyards, butterfly straps and triggers

[freiman the minstrel]

Guys,

I am thinking about all the ways we do sword strapping.

Some folks like triggers, and they come in a lot of different styles. Some folks have tiny triggers, some have big, four finger triggers, and some have two triggers in their baskets.

Some folks use a butterfly strap that inserts a pivot point that the sword can swing around. I have even seen one with a built in metal swivel.

Some folks use different types of lanyards. One guy I knew years ago had a little metal clip that clipped onto a ring on his vambrace.

What do you do? Do you have a pattern that you could post?

f

[Nissan Maxima]

I try and get away with using none of the above. my "rules" excuse is that my swords are bastard swords which are exempt from needing straps.

Its stupid to tie your sword to your hand. Also, I like to drop a sword occasionally and pull my knife and shank someone in the face. Hard to do if it is tied to you. In a mellee I have seen guys hurt by having a three foot lever tied to their arm while they get dragged through a line.

When someone makes me do this stupid thing I tie a tiny tiny tiny little piece of string or thread from my glove to my hilt.

You don't see much evidence for lanyards in the historical art. do you? I wonder why?

[D.Z.P.]

Right now I just use a leather thong to hold it onto my arm. I am planning on getting some chains and attaching them to my COP.

[Murdock]

i have a strap that goes round the back of my hand and locks the guant to the hilt.

basically acts as a trigger lanyard and effectivelt makes the guant in to a basket hilt

[Agnarr]

I try and get away with using none of the above. my "rules" excuse is that my swords are bastard swords which are exempt from needing straps.

Its stupid to tie your sword to your hand. Also, I like to drop a sword occasionally and pull my knife and shank someone in the face. Hard to do if it is tied to you. In a mellee I have seen guys hurt by having a three foot lever tied to their arm while they get dragged through a line.

When someone makes me do this stupid thing I tie a tiny tiny tiny little piece of string or thread from my glove to my hilt.

You don't see much evidence for lanyards in the historical art. do you? I wonder why?

Last couple years they been making us do that a Pennsic. I understand inside, but in at pennsic it is stupid. i use a piece of thin ribbon.

[Diglach Mac Cein]

I can see some need in some tourneys - especially some of the indoor sites used around my area. Not a lot of space, and someone losing a weapon mid-swing could be bad for a spectator.

At a big open field like Pennsic? For the vast majority of the time (unless the fighting gets right up on the sidelines) I doubt we would see someone throw a sword THAT far by accident.

[igelkott]

for tournaments it makes sense..... but for large melees like pennsic? it's a stupid rule.

Chris

[David Edwinson]

I remember the Queen of Trimaris getting pelted with a flying sword during a tourney a long time ago... I've used a lanyard ever since.

Can't argue with the logic of no lanyards in melee, though. It's got much more potential for danger than no lanyard does in that situation.

[Kilkenny]

I see the reasoning on both sides. Which is why I use a lanyard made from one piece of leather thong and looped around my wrist.

On the exceptionally rare occasion when I lose hold of a sword and it tries to go flying, the lanyard is enough to make sure it won't fly very far - even if the lanyard breaks, it will still have bled off a chunk of energy and the sword shouldn't go far.

In the situation where I really want to let go of that sword before my shoulder gets wrenched out, I can. The leather thong will break long before I will.

[Matthew Richardson]

I use a 1/2" leather lanyard on my single-hand swords. I fight exclusively in a pair of Darkheart Stealth gauntlets. When I first got the Stealths, I found that I did not have the same control that I did with a basket and string lanyard. With some experimentation, I was able to gain the same or better control using the leather strap. I equate the strap in use to the sword knot from the movie "The Duelists". Suddenly it all made sense...

Mathghamhain

[paulb]

I use a variation on a strap around the wrist. (Drawing attached.)

I don't like triggers. I teach that the hand and wrist should be de-emphasized, since they are the weaker muscles involved in the sword swing. For this reason, I also teach to hold the sword with the lower fingers, using the first and middle finger for fine control.

Using a trigger creates a pivot point in the hand, and encourages use of the fingers and wrist. You can use a trigger, and still use my method, but its use encourages you not to do so.

My strap transfers the pull to the wrist, making the sword more of an extension of the arm, and makes it unnecessary to add force with the fingers and wrist.

Regards,

[DietrichUhl]

I remember the Queen of Trimaris getting pelted with a flying sword during a tourney a long time ago... I've used a lanyard ever since.

Can't argue with the logic of no lanyards in melee, though. It's got much more potential for danger than no lanyard does in that situation.

A few years ago when I moved to Meridies
I found out that at the time they counted a basket hilt as a landard. I was a bit surprised. The funny thing was at the first or second fighter practice I attended, I yanked my opponent’s sword out of his hand tossing over my head. I did not even realize I had done this until I stopped after having hit him twice in the head when I registered he called good. We where both kneeling at the time.

Personally I fight with a trigger that sits over the fore and middle finger. I have had sword hit is such a way that it was ripped from my grasp. All I had to do was drop my hand and close my fingers and yep the sword was still there. I like triggers.

-Dietrich

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Since I've been fighting with single handed weapon gauntlets, I've used a trigger for my middle and ring fingers. I'm expiramenting with a strap like Murdock uses. My baskets have para cord loops on them as lanyards. I fight mainly spear and polearm in melee, so the thought of getting tangled up where I can't release my weapon when I needed to never occured to me.

[CiaranBlackrune]

I use a butterfly.

[DietrichUhl]

I use a variation on a strap around the wrist. (Drawing attached.)

I don't like triggers. I teach that the hand and wrist should be de-emphasized, since they are the weaker muscles involved in the sword swing. For this reason, I also teach to hold the sword with the lower fingers, using the first and middle finger for fine control.

Using a trigger creates a pivot point in the hand, and encourages use of the fingers and wrist. You can use a trigger, and still use my method, but its use encourages you not to do so.

My strap transfers the pull to the wrist, making the sword more of an extension of the arm, and makes it unnecessary to add force with the fingers and wrist.

Regards,

Please explain why I should not use my hand to increase power?

I fight with my fore and middle finger in a trigger. Shots with my arm at extention are thrown with the frist two fingers loose and the ring and pinkly controling the plate of the blade and perhaps adding power in a snap.

There are many thoughts on how to throw a blow. I would love to know your reasoning. I'm not saying your wrong, just I don't get how you see the hand as reducing power.

-D

[D.Z.P.]

I use a butterfly.

What is a Butterfly? And I know about the thing with wings .

[thomas penyngton]

Please explain why I should not use my hand to increase power?

Just so you know, Duke Paul has a complete set of fighting information, that covers his thinking on this (and many other things). it's here: http://www.bellatrix.org/school/

Also check out his "ask paul" forum on the AA for lots of info.

thomas p
(no april fools, sorry... )

[Broadway]

2. Primary weapons used single-handed shall have a wrist strap
(or equivalent restraint) which willkeep the weapon from leaving the immediate area of the user. Restraints are not required on hafted
weapons used single-handed, or on single-handed back-up weapons.

Does a basket hilt -by itself- qualify as (or equivalent restraint)?

[freiman the minstrel]

2. Primary weapons used single-handed shall have a wrist strap
(or equivalent restraint) which willkeep the weapon from leaving the immediate area of the user. Restraints are not required on hafted
weapons used single-handed, or on single-handed back-up weapons.

Does a basket hilt -by itself- qualify as (or equivalent restraint)?

No, it's not normally considered equivalent restraint. A trigger counts, but a basket does not.

The reason I posted this thread is that I was wondering what the current state of the art for strapping systems is. That's why I asked for patterns.

Lots of good info here. Please, guys, keep it coming.

f

[Cisco]

Does a basket hilt -by itself- qualify as (or equivalent restraint)?

I believe, at one point, in Meridies, the answer was yes. I don't think it technically counts anymore in Meridies (not sure about the rest of the world).

[paulb]

Please explain why I should not use my hand to increase power?

Dietrich,

My theory is:

It is more efficient to use the large muscles in the body (and legs) to supply power to the sword blow, since they are much stronger than the muscles of the arm and hand. This happens early in the sword swing.

Since the muscles in the body are not in contact with the sword, the intermediate joints – shoulder, elbow, wrist and fingers – must act as transmission links, later in the swing.

The transmission links work best if they are relatively rigidly connected. If they are not, they must use their relatively weaker muscles to transmit the power from the relatively stronger body muscles. This does not provide an efficient transfer of force, since the weaker muscles in the transmission links can’t handle that much power.

Therefore, I de-emphasize the use of the shoulder, arm, wrist and hand when applying power to the sword swing. I am not saying that they don’t supply any power, but it is not efficient to rely on them to do so.

On the other hand:

If you plan on using the muscles in one of the transmission links to add power you cannot have that link rigidly connected, since a rigid connection would allow no room to flex. The lack of a rigid connection would contribute to the inefficiency of transmission of the power supplied by the body

So, it becomes a choice of where you want to get the power for your sword swing. If you want to efficiently use the larger, stronger body muscles, you need rigid transmission links, which doesn’t allow for much use of the muscles in these transmission links to supply power. If you want to use the smaller, weaker muscles in the shoulder, arm, wrist and fingers to supply power, you can’t efficiently use the body muscles to supply power.

Regards,

[DietrichUhl]

Please explain why I should not use my hand to increase power?

Dietrich,

My theory is:

It is more efficient to use the large muscles in the body (and legs) to supply power to the sword blow, since they are much stronger than the muscles of the arm and hand. This happens early in the sword swing.

Since the muscles in the body are not in contact with the sword, the intermediate joints – shoulder, elbow, wrist and fingers – must act as transmission links, later in the swing.

The transmission links work best if they are relatively rigidly connected. If they are not, they must use their relatively weaker muscles to transmit the power from the relatively stronger body muscles. This does not provide an efficient transfer of force, since the weaker muscles in the transmission links can’t handle that much power.

Therefore, I de-emphasize the use of the shoulder, arm, wrist and hand when applying power to the sword swing. I am not saying that they don’t supply any power, but it is not efficient to rely on them to do so.

On the other hand:

If you plan on using the muscles in one of the transmission links to add power you cannot have that link rigidly connected, since a rigid connection would allow no room to flex. The lack of a rigid connection would contribute to the inefficiency of transmission of the power supplied by the body

So, it becomes a choice of where you want to get the power for your sword swing. If you want to efficiently use the larger, stronger body muscles, you need rigid transmission links, which doesn’t allow for much use of the muscles in these transmission links to supply power. If you want to use the smaller, weaker muscles in the shoulder, arm, wrist and fingers to supply power, you can’t efficiently use the body muscles to supply power.

Regards,

Thanks for the explanation.

[D.Z.P.]

Can someone please explain a Butterfly to me?

[freiman the minstrel]

Bjorn,

A butterfly strap is a strap that is kind of in the shape of an X, with the top two straps going around the sword, and the bottom two going around the hand.

It allows the sword to pivot a little without putting as much stress on the hand. I wish I could remember the details.

When I was new, they were state of the art, with fighters eagerly carrying zerox and even ditto copies from one practice to another. I figured that there was a copy of the pattern on line so I googled "Butterfly strap"

Don't do that at work. "Butterfly strap" is also the name of an intimate item for couples that takes batteries.

f

[blackbow]

Bjorn:

put your hand in the basket hilt. Now loop a length of cord around the sword where it meets the basket hilt. Cross the cord behind the sword, then close that loop around your wrist. Looked at from the top it looks like an infinity sign standing up.

JB

[D.Z.P.]

Like the picture that Duke Paul showed?

[Robert of Canterbury]

Heres how I make my Lanyards

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=57539

[blackbow]

like the picture.

JB

Like the picture that Duke Paul showed?