What are basic blows at your practice?

[freiman the minstrel]

This question is about attack training methodology, or offensive pedagogy.

What are blows that you consider "Basic".

Do you just use the six point pell system?

Do you segregate blows into hip advancing blows and hip retreating blows?

Do you consider it worth while

Is a thrust on your basic shot list?

What about gimmicky blows? Do you do a Hi-low as a basic blow (where a leg shot turns into a head wrap)? Do you consider a scorpion to be a blow worth practicing on a regular basis?

I guess what I wanted to know is this. If you were to come up with a list of fifty basic blows, what would they be?

f

[Kilkenny]

This question is about attack training methodology, or offensive pedagogy.

What are blows that you consider "Basic".

Do you just use the six point pell system?

Do you segregate blows into hip advancing blows and hip retreating blows?

Do you consider it worth while

Is a thrust on your basic shot list?

What about gimmicky blows? Do you do a Hi-low as a basic blow (where a leg shot turns into a head wrap)? Do you consider a scorpion to be a blow worth practicing on a regular basis?

I guess what I wanted to know is this. If you were to come up with a list of fifty basic blows, what would they be?

f

I think of that hi-low as about the most basic category of effective "fake", and it's been a bread and butter shot for my entire career.

I don't think it is a "basic blow".

I think if you came up with a list of fifty basic blows, you would probably have about 45 too many

There are about 4 categories of blows - snap, wrap, punch and thrust.
Onside and offside are different in more ways than targeting, but I don't think of different targets making for different blows. Whether I am throwing a snap to the onside head or the onside leg, it's the same technique, just a targeting difference.

I think it's important not to think of different targets as being different blows - limits your creativity, keeps you from throwing funky stuff like offside wraps just because it seems like a good idea at the time

[Ingvarr]

The most common one lately seems to be "hit Ingvarr in the junk with everything you've got." I personally don't see the attraction, but there are some people who are really good at it. Yes Kaz, I'm looking at you.

[kelly powell]

At practice I tend not to use a lot of my bread & butter shots....either my opponent is way too good or less skilled ones have seen them enough to be aware of them....In fact, I tend to overestimate strange opponents at events and am mildly suprised when I remember to use a old chesnut and it works.
I have been concentrating on working the corners and narrowing my wraps to shots that I actually could throw with a broadsword(I hope i do not cause any flameage with that statement).....I'm a lefty amongst a freakishly large % of fellow mutants(kc mo has the same deal....running between 40 to 60%) and am working on effective off side shots to legs and j-hooks that can be turned into thrusts.

[Jean Paul de Sens]

This question is about attack training methodology, or offensive pedagogy.

What are blows that you consider "Basic".

Cut, snap, punch, thrust.

Do you just use the six point pell system?

Eh.

Do you segregate blows into hip advancing blows and hip retreating blows?

Yes.

Do you consider it worth while

Is a thrust on your basic shot list?

Of course.

What about gimmicky blows? Do you do a Hi-low as a basic blow (where a leg shot turns into a head wrap)? Do you consider a scorpion to be a blow worth practicing on a regular basis?

Hi low, not really. Wraps are just cuts and snaps with the false edge.

I guess what I wanted to know is this. If you were to come up with a list of fifty basic blows, what would they be?

f

Like Kilkenny, it's 46 too many.

I feel there's the 4 basics, and all of the rest rely upon combinations of those basics and targeting.

JP

[justmagnus]

I think this would be an excellent OP to post in the Ask Duke Paul forum.

I also agree with what Kilkenny posted. For the record the first 3 shots I teach any new person is the Flat Snap, Offside and Wrap.

I confess I still use the "bowl of soup" method to teach the flat snap.


Edit: I don't usually teach the thrust right away but I agree it should be counted as a basic technique. By the time I would teach it most people have moved on to a better teacher and everyone is happy.

[Murdock]

Lately i have been working on doble onside head, low back of thigh wrap and a kinda whipping back of head wrap. Inside thigh shot and stabbing, been workig on stabbing alot.

Then there is still my fave bottom of the bicep just above the elbow shot. No one throws that deep wrap anymore on me at practice though so i don't get to do it anymore

Now wraps i have to work on, i know i'm gonna throw em.
If they miss the elbow gets yanked and hurts. If i throw em wrong i can mess up my shoulder easy. I wrecked my rotator cuff and tore some stuff in a car wreck can't throw em wrong or i pull muscles and arm won't work.

Doing rows and shoulder flys out the azz at home has helped, i can't do much weight on the right one but it'd helped alot. I usually use the rubber rehab bands i have and work full range for the rotator cuff.

Honsetly i thini really only throw about 6 different shots. 4 if you don't factor in the target difference.

[adamstjohn]

Four blows?

I only have one.

But I like it! It's called "Stab. Them. In. The. Face."

[Luca Sogliano]

My blows:

Flat snap.

Offside hip pop (might be a dirty lefty trick, I learned it from a lefty Knight) where I pop my left hip out and nail the tip of the sword against the front of your helmet.

Offside head shot, which I counter-rotate to do.

Wrap: This is my fourth pitch, so to speak, I'm working on it.

Thumb lead: My favorite shot. Throw a few blows the normal what, then using the hand mechanics of a wrap, you change the oncoming angle of the blow about 10 degrees. Beautiful against heater fighters, who tend to block by only moving their shield as much as they have to.

That's my game. Throw in a few thrusts, and the fact that I like to contort a fair bit to change blow angles, and that's me as a fighter.

[InsaneIrish]

Onside:
Head
Body
Leg

Offside:
Head
Body
Leg

Thumb Lead:
Head
Body
Leg

Wrap:
Scorpion
Flat
Butt
Rising J

Thrust

Listed in order of progessive difficulty.

[kelly powell]

Really? You think a body shot is easier then a leg? hmmmm.Are you going to the fyrd retreat? If so, let's dance a littleand keep count of the various places we hit each other.....I'm not disputing your call....it's more like head,leg, arm ,body to me.....But I get classified under "goofy"

[raito]

The basic blows I teach are 10, with 2 thrusts added since thrusting was added to the basic S&S auth. They are:

Straight shot to the head
Vertical shot to the head
Straight shot to the leg
Scoop to the leg

Backhand to the head
Backhand to the leg

Long wrap to the head
Short wrap to the head

Long wrap to the leg

Drop shot

Thrust to the face
Thrust to the body

The reason for this particular set is that, given a new student training with the shield, the body shouldn't be open, ever. The only body shots here are the drop shot and the thrust to the body. Additionally, the straight shot to the leg doesn't work against shields that stay put (the scoop to the leg is the correct blow to throw there). There's also enough variation that it doesn't get too boring practice.

The mechanics of the blows are very similar, but having this rather large number of blows allows the student to practice those mechanics to get differeing results. For example, if you can throw the straight shot to the head and the vertical shot to the head, then all the other forehand angles ought to be trivial. It's just that you can tell whether or not you're doing the basic blows correctly easily (by being completely horizontal or completely vertical).

Then again, I also teach footwork right off, too...

[InsaneIrish]

Really? You think a body shot is easier then a leg? hmmmm.Are you going to the fyrd retreat? If so, let's dance a littleand keep count of the various places we hit each other.....I'm not disputing your call....it's more like head,leg, arm ,body to me.....But I get classified under "goofy"

yes I will be at the retreat. You will need to intro yourself to me, since I don't know who "kelly" is. I am Aiden.


I do not teach shots seperate from footwork. So, yes, a body shot is easier than a leg shot the way I teach it. But, more times than not it goes with the natural progression down the body, of head, body, leg.

[Duke Areus]

This question is about attack training methodology, or offensive pedagogy.

What are blows that you consider "Basic".

Flat snap, offside, leg. You can win crown with just those, so
I'd consider them bread and butter

Do you just use the six point pell system?

12 point

Do you segregate blows into hip advancing blows and hip retreating blows?

No. Wait, I have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you consider it worth while

huh?

Is a thrust on your basic shot list?

No, it just gets in my way.

What about gimmicky blows? Do you do a Hi-low as a basic blow (where a leg shot turns into a head wrap)? Do you consider a scorpion to be a blow worth practicing on a regular basis?

There is no such thing as a "gimmicky" blow, if I spin my sword over your head, and you fall for it, and then I chop you in the face, you're dead. You can call it gimmicky, I call it winning. We call hi-lows "Pump fakes", and yes, I do them all of the time. Scorpions are ok, I prefer more of a 45 degree down wrap.

I guess what I wanted to know is this. If you were to come up with a list of fifty basic blows, what would they be?
f

Uh fifty for Me, or fifty for a newbie?

For a newbie the fifty are:

Flatsnap
offside
leg

Do them fifty times each

For me:

Flat
Offside
slot
leg
offside leg
rib
offside rib
head wrap
back wrap
butt wrap
leg wrap
offside head wrap
offside back wrap
offside butt wrap
offside leg wrap
rising flat
pump flat
pump fake double tap flat
dropping flat
rising flat pump fake offside
small high loop flat
large high loop flat
back blade flat
large loop back blade closing flat
low loop flat
offside moulinet loop flat
double molinet wrap
offside loop flat
jumping flat
jumping wrap flat
8 foot pump leg jumping flat
hidden flat
High guard flat
Back guard flat
hidden flat
short stem flat
inverted slot head
inverted slot body
inverted slot leg
scoop body
scoop leg
scoop leg fake flat
scoop wrap
diagonal high-low fake pump offside
flat fake offside leg
short stem offside leg
Short stem punch leg
high loop heap wrap
loop body wrap
low loop head wrap
high loop leg
high loop leg wrap
high loop offside leg

Those are pretty much my bread and butter shots, I'm sure there are a couple more I am forgetting, I'll post em when I remember.

[Kazimir Konstantinov]

Ingvarr wrote:
The most common one lately seems to be "hit Ingvarr in the junk with everything you've got." I personally don't see the attraction, but there are some people who are really good at it. Yes Kaz, I'm looking at you.

I am just a little guy buddy how hard could I possibly hit you.??

[Ingvarr]

Hard enough to make me go

Harder than your knight cupped me.

I need to check your sword for magnets, it could be my cast iron balls causing your targeting issues.

[Johannes]

Hard enough to make me go

Harder than your knight cupped me.

I need to check your sword for magnets, it could be my cast iron balls causing your targeting issues.

If my balls had this problem I would block...

[Donal Mac Ruiseart]

The most common one lately seems to be "hit Ingvarr in the junk with everything you've got."

When I was a lad, we referred to one's "jewels."

When did "jewels" get downgraded to "junk?"

[Ingvarr]

That's what any reasonable, intelligent person would do. I keep turning into the shots.

Freiman, sorry about inserting my testicles into your thread. I wasn't trying to derail this much.

[Eduard]

For me:

Flat
Offside
slot
leg
offside leg
rib
offside rib
head wrap
back wrap
butt wrap
leg wrap
offside head wrap
offside back wrap
offside butt wrap
offside leg wrap
rising flat
pump flat
pump fake double tap flat
dropping flat
rising flat pump fake offside
small high loop flat
large high loop flat
back blade flat
large loop back blade closing flat
low loop flat
offside moulinet loop flat
double molinet wrap
offside loop flat
jumping flat
jumping wrap flat
8 foot pump leg jumping flat
hidden flat
High guard flat
Back guard flat
hidden flat
short stem flat
inverted slot head
inverted slot body
inverted slot leg
scoop body
scoop leg
scoop leg fake flat
scoop wrap
diagonal high-low fake pump offside
flat fake offside leg
short stem offside leg
Short stem punch leg
high loop heap wrap
loop body wrap
low loop head wrap
high loop leg
high loop leg wrap
high loop offside leg

Those are pretty much my bread and butter shots, I'm sure there are a couple more I am forgetting, I'll post em when I remember.

You forgot butt waggle!

[Duke Areus]

For me:

Flat
Offside
slot
leg
offside leg
rib
offside rib
head wrap
back wrap
butt wrap
leg wrap
offside head wrap
offside back wrap
offside butt wrap
offside leg wrap
rising flat
pump flat
pump fake double tap flat
dropping flat
rising flat pump fake offside
small high loop flat
large high loop flat
back blade flat
large loop back blade closing flat
low loop flat
offside moulinet loop flat
double molinet wrap
offside loop flat
jumping flat
jumping wrap flat
8 foot pump leg jumping flat
hidden flat
High guard flat
Back guard flat
hidden flat
short stem flat
inverted slot head
inverted slot body
inverted slot leg
scoop body
scoop leg
scoop leg fake flat
scoop wrap
diagonal high-low fake pump offside
flat fake offside leg
short stem offside leg
Short stem punch leg
high loop heap wrap
loop body wrap
low loop head wrap
high loop leg
high loop leg wrap
high loop offside leg

Those are pretty much my bread and butter shots, I'm sure there are a couple more I am forgetting, I'll post em when I remember.

You forgot butt waggle!

DUDE!!!! Stop giving away mt secrets!!!!!

[bkillian]

Some will say that there are only 4 shots but its really just 3 blows with a stick in our game. A forehand, a backhand, and a thrust. A wrap is just a forehand turned into a backhand right before impact. An offside leg is just a backhand throw at the leg. Anything else is just how you get from point A to point B. To think that there is a diffrence just overly complicates things.

[Mefario]

When I first started out, wrap shots were pretty much considered more of an advanced throw. Too easy to have someone new throw these wrong and do some damage to their arms later on.

I was taught and I show these same shots to the guys that start out in our Shire:

Onside head, Onside leg, Offside of both and the straight in shot. Once these are done, then it gets into combos and adjustment of targeting to get the body shots and such.

[Donngal]

Hard enough to make me go

Harder than your knight cupped me.

I need to check your sword for magnets, it could be my cast iron balls causing your targeting issues.

Hard enough to make me go

Harder than your knight cupped me.

I need to check your sword for magnets, it could be my cast iron balls causing your targeting issues.

I would say you attract the cup shot with your stance. You have been standing square. When the leg shot is thrown you step away with your left leg turning your crotch into the shot. Not tot mention your tall and stand tall.
I dont recall hitting youwith a cup shot. If I did it wasn't my intent which probably accounts for it being light, you wouldn't want me tio hit you there with one of my leg shots I hope.

I would have to agree with Phelan on the flat snap, offside, leg. Those shots thrown in a different series can get you far.

Donngal

[Kilkenny]

Some will say that there are only 4 shots but its really just 3 blows with a stick in our game. A forehand, a backhand, and a thrust. A wrap is just a forehand turned into a backhand right before impact. An offside leg is just a backhand throw at the leg. Anything else is just how you get from point A to point B. To think that there is a diffrence just overly complicates things.

A wrap is *not* a backhand. That's a substantial misconception. The backhand is still a "true edge" strike, as opposed to the wrap, which is a "false edge" strike.

And there are more than "forehand, backhand and thrust" even without considering the wrap as different, which it is.

Punches are not forehand, backhand, nor thrust. They're strikes with the true edge, but the mechanics are not the mechanics of a forehand or backhand, and while related to the mechanics of a thrust, they're not thrusts.

It's true that there's no need to consider every target for every technique as a distinct and separate blow, it is also true that if you don't recognize the differences in mechanics and technique for what *are* different blows, you're going to come up short in the long run.

It's been my experience that the difference between very good fighters and excellent fighters is creativity - the ability to invent, on the fly, a "new" shot that breaks the defense, not just execute a repertoire well.

That kind of creativity comes from intimate understanding of all the mechanics involved.

[bkillian]

A wrap is *not* a backhand. That's a substantial misconception.

To hard to discuss the mechanics of this one on line. I But I'll give it a shot. The reason the wrap is a back hand is because the power generation of a wrap is developed from a rapid change in direction and momentum along the axis of the direction in which it was thrown. In essence,turning a fore hand inside out, bringing the arm (wrist and fore arm) into the position of of a back hand at the moment of impact. The way the shot is thrown allows the force to be transfered through the back edge of the blade instead of the front.

it is also true that if you don't recognize the differences in mechanics and technique for what *are* different blows, you're going to come up short in the long run.

And if you don't recognize how they are really the same thing you, are going to come up short. The simple fact is that with a stick you hit with one of three points at any given moment. Granted there are minor differences in technique. But I find they have more to do with the kinesthetics of the thrower in relation to the length of the stick. All shots,at some point end up transitioning to one of the three classifications.

he ability to invent, on the fly, a "new" shot that breaks the defense, not just execute a repertoire well.

No such thing. Sorry that animal does not exist. What does exist is the possibility of stringing together a series of motions that may or may not get past a persons defense at that moment in a dynamically shifting set of circumstances. These motions are not new, nor is the shot new. I would wager,that if it is a sincere attempt at a blow that could be called good is made, some one has tried it before(there are only so many ways the human body moves). It may not have worked at that time because of one factor or another, so it was forgotten. A shot hits because of timing and a good grasp of spacial relationships. If a fighter spends his/her time working on the simplest of things they will progress further and faster than if they try to master the deadly flying spinning back thumb lead and six hundred others ways to combine a feint and a blow. If a fighter can master distance and timing they only need to throw two shots at the most. It was attributed that Duke Anton Tremaine once said that he thought he was a decent fighter because he only threw 4 shots. He then said He would be a good fighter when He had to only throw three . He would be a master when he only threw one.

[Ewan]

I'm a nobody, but here is what i show someone new. *This is in An-Tir. Some areas have quite different approaches.*

Flat snap, high return and low return. The first day of drills and slow work will be totally focused on sheild position, body mechanics, power generation and the flat snap. The flat snap can become many different blows, but they all start from the same position.

Oh and I teach how to block with your sheild, not with your sword. New people need to keep it simple and using the sword to hit and the shield to block helps to develop good habits for when the next blow is introduced.

The offside.

The thrust.

And lastly the wrap.
Only then would i show someone punches, deep offsides, moulinets etc.
But I haven't been in armour in months so what do i know.

[carlyle]

The reason the wrap is a back hand is because the power generation of a wrap is developed from a rapid change in direction and momentum along the axis of the direction in which it was thrown. In essence,turning a fore hand inside out, bringing the arm (wrist and fore arm) into the position of of a back hand at the moment of impact. The way the shot is thrown allows the force to be transfered through the back edge of the blade instead of the front.

Sorry, Brian, but I'm with Gavin on this one. The primary similarity between the backhand and the wrap is that both are powered with the opposite foot. A secondary consideration is that they are delivered with the palm down.

The arm position, blade orientation, and cutting edge for both blows, howerver, are all different. Gavin's point that the impact in a backhand is delivered with the true edge ("knuckles") rather then the wrap's false edge ("thumb") is a critical point. The backhand blade orientation trails the arm with the tip in or below the plane of the arm, while the wrap orients the blade ahead of the arm with the point above the plane. Finally, the arm position for the wrap is primarily kept in or below the plane of the shoulders; the backhand drives the hand almost vertical, raising the arm well above the shoulder.

In the lexicon I use, there are two backhands -- one powered by the sword foot, one by the shield foot. To me, though, a blow is categorized more by the hand and arm orientation and the striking edge. Using these criteria, I don't believe the wrap falls into this category.

With respect,

Alfred of Carlyle

[carlyle]

Phelan,

In your list, you describe four wraps, and then four "offside" complements:

head wrap vs. offside head wrap
back wrap vs. offside back wrap
butt wrap vs. offside butt wrap
leg wrap vs. offside leg wrap

Are the offside versions just deeper wraps intended to strike the far side of the opponent (i.e., his right butt-cheek instead of the more common left butt-cheek)? Or are you actually bring the blade around to the offside from the front to strike palm-up with the false edge ("thumb") of your sword? I ask because I've theorized about the latter blow for years, but I've only ever seen one person actually ever deliever it.

With respect,

Alfred of Carlyle

[bkillian]

he arm position, blade orientation, and cutting edge for both blows, howerver, are all different. Gavin's point that the impact in a backhand is delivered with the true edge ("knuckles") rather then the wrap's false edge ("thumb") is a critical point. The backhand blade orientation trails the arm with the tip in or below the plane of the arm, while the wrap orients the blade ahead of the arm with the point above the plane. Finally, the arm position for the wrap is primarily kept in or below the plane of the shoulders; the backhand drives the hand almost vertical, raising the arm well above the shoulder.

O.K. ....So could we say the wrap is really just a turned over fore hand?

Either way my point is really that we should seek simplification of every thing we do.

[Kilkenny]

he arm position, blade orientation, and cutting edge for both blows, howerver, are all different. Gavin's point that the impact in a backhand is delivered with the true edge ("knuckles") rather then the wrap's false edge ("thumb") is a critical point. The backhand blade orientation trails the arm with the tip in or below the plane of the arm, while the wrap orients the blade ahead of the arm with the point above the plane. Finally, the arm position for the wrap is primarily kept in or below the plane of the shoulders; the backhand drives the hand almost vertical, raising the arm well above the shoulder.

O.K. ....So could we say the wrap is really just a turned over fore hand?

Either way my point is really that we should seek simplification of every thing we do.

Oversimplification does not result in meaningful communication.

For example, for an SCA fighter, there are two "mechanical" objectives:

(1) Hit the other person
(2) Do not get hit

Giving a beginner these instructions and no others is not productive.
Giving these instructions to a hot stick who tends to overthink can be extremely productive.

When you are first learning how this whole business works, you need more detailed instruction than you do later on.

There's also a very real benefit to a sufficiently detailed lexicon in order to communicate about what we are doing.

For example "a turned over forehand" - that's an offside head shot - starts out just like an onside snap, but at the appropriate point you turn your hand over. You didn't mean turn it over like that ? That's part of why there's another name for the different blow...

And, again, there's more to proper wrap technique than just turning over your hand. Lots more. Part of why some people tear up their arms throwing wraps and some don't.

[Kilkenny]

A wrap is *not* a backhand. That's a substantial misconception.

To hard to discuss the mechanics of this one on line. I But I'll give it a shot. The reason the wrap is a back hand is because the power generation of a wrap is developed from a rapid change in direction and momentum along the axis of the direction in which it was thrown. In essence,turning a fore hand inside out, bringing the arm (wrist and fore arm) into the position of of a back hand at the moment of impact. The way the shot is thrown allows the force to be transfered through the back edge of the blade instead of the front.

it is also true that if you don't recognize the differences in mechanics and technique for what *are* different blows, you're going to come up short in the long run.

And if you don't recognize how they are really the same thing you, are going to come up short. The simple fact is that with a stick you hit with one of three points at any given moment. Granted there are minor differences in technique. But I find they have more to do with the kinesthetics of the thrower in relation to the length of the stick. All shots,at some point end up transitioning to one of the three classifications.

he ability to invent, on the fly, a "new" shot that breaks the defense, not just execute a repertoire well.

No such thing. Sorry that animal does not exist. What does exist is the possibility of stringing together a series of motions that may or may not get past a persons defense at that moment in a dynamically shifting set of circumstances. These motions are not new, nor is the shot new. I would wager,that if it is a sincere attempt at a blow that could be called good is made, some one has tried it before(there are only so many ways the human body moves). It may not have worked at that time because of one factor or another, so it was forgotten. A shot hits because of timing and a good grasp of spacial relationships. If a fighter spends his/her time working on the simplest of things they will progress further and faster than if they try to master the deadly flying spinning back thumb lead and six hundred others ways to combine a feint and a blow. If a fighter can master distance and timing they only need to throw two shots at the most. It was attributed that Duke Anton Tremaine once said that he thought he was a decent fighter because he only threw 4 shots. He then said He would be a good fighter when He had to only throw three . He would be a master when he only threw one.

Gosh. You sure know how to put a fellow in his place, don't you ?

Do we know each other outside of this forum ?

Do you know what it meant that I put "new" in quotes in that sentence ?


Gavin

[carlyle]

O.K. ....So could we say the wrap is really just a turned over fore hand?

With respect to Gavin's cautionary post, it's evident to me we are talking about the same thing now, so I would say yes.

Now, one reason that Gavin's point is critical is because the difference in time-of-impact between a wrap and a forehand dictates that the amount of energy in the two blows must be generated at different rates. If you threw the wrap with the same power curve as a forehand (such that an imaginary target far off the shoulder of your opponent would have been struck a good blow), then the continuation of the blow would generate even more energy, putting additional stress on the limbs and resulting in an unnecessarily powerful shot at impact. If you change the rate at which the energy is generated -- ostensibly by keeping the arm in tighter for a longer portion of the blow -- the final blow will hit with about the same force as the forehand, the joints will experience a lot less stress, and you will actually have more control over the weapon to adjust the orientation and target for a longer portion of the delivery time.

I realize that trying to describe the mechanic is a lot trying to teach fly fishing at the dinner table, but given the forum it's the best I can do. My apologies if all I've managed to do is confuse anyone more than they were already.

With respect,

Alfred of Carlyle

[DELETEMYACCOUNT]

There is only one blow. The thing that changes is the target.

[bkillian]

Gosh. You sure know how to put a fellow in his place, don't you ?

Just trying to have interesting discourse, nothing more. Sorry If you felt it was an attack of some sort.

Do we know each other outside of this forum ?

Don't really know if we do or not. I'm horrible with names. I assume that we are both gentlemen discussing one of our favorite sports.

Do you know what it meant that I put "new" in quotes in that sentence ?

Apparently not. I thought it was a reference to something err ...... new as in...

the ability to invent