Building an SCA-style Great Sword

[Adamo]

How far from the cross guard do you like the weapon to balance?

Adam

[Richard Blackmoore]

2 to 5 inches for an aluminum quillon & pommel set type SCA rattan bastard or long sword. Further out is OK if it is a maximum SCA length monster great sword.

I think you've played with some of mine. If they get too tip heavy then they don't move well in an emergency with one hand or even with both hands for some of the more subtle direction changes, much less for the fancier stuff you find in the period fighting manuals/illuminations.

Most of the surviving medieval bastard to two handed swords are remarkably light, move quickly and balance well. For the most part they are not heavy giant sharpened crowbars like in the movies.

There are some heavy ones, including some Landsknecht pike head cutting swords. But for the most part surviving heavy two handers are usually ceremonial/bearing swords or tomb decorations rather than actual duel or battle weapons.


If you try to emulate real weapons (hard to do with rattan) you will get a better feel for what 'real' combat was like with these. Having extra tip heavy balance can let you hit harder sometimes with less effort, but with proper technique these things rattan swords plenty hard anyway, so I prefer the more authentic balance.

[Adamo]

Good point.
This isn't for a six-foot sword, I'm thinking more of a bastard sword.
Though any input is appreciated.

Adam

[Richard Blackmoore]

If you want to stop by my house tonight you can check out my SCA bastard sword balance and compare it to my replica hand and a half. I'll probably be home by 6:30. Phone number is in the MSR directory.

[Tristan Winter]

For mine I use an AL quillon from Mandrake (windrosearmoury). its 9 1/2" from end to end.

Im still out to lunch on the thrusting tip though, it seems to make the weapon top heavy and that isn't complimentary to how I have been taught.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Tristan,
If your thrusting tip makes the sword tip heavy and you don't like it that way, you need a pommel weight of some sort. Depending on where you place you hands, something as simple as another thrusting tip on the pommel (you aren't going to use it, unless your kingdom allows it, but it counters the thrustie up front) or as good looking as a cast pommel from Windrose. The solid pommel is a good option if you tend to hold the butt end of the sword.

[Richard Blackmoore]

For mine I use an AL quillon from Mandrake (windrosearmoury). its 9 1/2" from end to end.

Im still out to lunch on the thrusting tip though, it seems to make the weapon top heavy and that isn't complimentary to how I have been taught.

Tell the twit teaching you that you need help. Or make a lighter thrusting tip. Or shave the edges of th blade to improve the balance. Or add a heavier pommel. Or change the grip length.

Or maybe remember to bring the sword to practice and get advice from the aforementioned twit.

Or change the balance by grasping the ricasso. Didn't you get that far in your last session of "evil great sword moves you don't use on your friends 101"?

And never use black magic marker and write on the thrusting tip "Your Face Here", it gives you an unfair advantage against the terminally curious or those distracted by bright and shiny objects.

[MarkH]

Another vote for the 2-5" balance point. Any closer to the quillions, and you can end up with a sword that is a little "floaty" and doesnt hit very hard, much further out and it feels like a brick when you swing it. the diff. between 2 and 5 feels pretty dramatic, so you'll want to play around a bit to find the right sword for you. I play a speed game, so I try and get the closest balance I can while retaining power

[Zygmunt Nadratowski]

This reminds me: How can someone get the balance right if they are using a butt spike? I wrapped a ton of duct tape around the back end of mine, but it looks like hammered sh1te.

I'm not using a monster great sword either - it's about 75" (6'3"), from spike to thrusting tip.

[Donal Mac Ruiseart]

Sorry, Zygmunt, but my definition of a monster great sword includes being longer than I am tall (6').

By that definition, that's a monster sure enough.

[Zygmunt Nadratowski]

Hmm...so how big were they usually in period? Any places online I can look at extant swords?

[Tom B.]

Here are a few interesting charts that I think found from an ARMA site.

Tom

[Tom B.]

Oh those only have weight not length.
Still interesting to the topic at hand but not what was asked for.

I have some info on length somewhere let me take a look.


Tom

[MarkH]

For the balance issue, I have a smashie pommel (its not a buttspike damitt ) on my bastard sword. To get the balance I wanted, I took some 1" wide barstock, and made two "C" shaped pieces that fit around the handle, right above the thrustie, then taped it on. I ended up with a metal collar above the thrustie. Looks pretty good, doesn't interfere with pommel smashes, and gives me that balance I wanted. I had it examined by our KEM just to be safe.

[Zygmunt Nadratowski]

Wow, good idea with the end-weight.

[TakedaSanjuichiro]

I'm fond of sheet lead in the grip area to adjust weight... goes right uner the tape/leather...

[Zygmunt Nadratowski]

Where can you find sheet lead? What does it cost?

[Richard Blackmoore]

I should have mentioned: I attach the pommel using a lag bolt that extendes substantially into the grip (using a predrilled hole to avoid splitting and after wrapping the grip), which adds a bit of balancing weight as well.

The sword weights shown are generally in line with my experience (for real ones). They simply are not heavy, they move well in the hand and don't require excessive strength to use (though of course that helps). They change direction easily and can be used with great precision.

[Kilkenny]

For the balance issue, I have a smashie pommel (its not a buttspike damitt ) on my bastard sword. To get the balance I wanted, I took some 1" wide barstock, and made two "C" shaped pieces that fit around the handle, right above the thrustie, then taped it on. I ended up with a metal collar above the thrustie. Looks pretty good, doesn't interfere with pommel smashes, and gives me that balance I wanted. I had it examined by our KEM just to be safe.

Your kingdom earl marshall approved a "thrusting tip" with a steel collar at the base ? I'm trying to wrap my head around how that could be within the rules.

[Donal Mac Ruiseart]

If the metal collar were around the base of the hilt, wrapped around only the part of the thrustie that was seated around the hilt and not extending onto the flexible part of the thrustie, I don't see a problem.

Especially since the nature of a pommel imposes practical limits to its use. It can't be swung and the range of motion in which it is used is somewhat limited.

I wish Atlantia allowed those.

[MarkH]

The collar sits below all the foam, even the part wrapping rattan. I included a crappy phone picture. The red is the collar, the blue is all foam.
<a href="http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/txial2/?action=view&current=pomell1.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj236/txial2/pomell1.gif" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>