Plate Cuisses

Bleddyn De Caldicot · Post by **Bleddyn De Caldicot** » Sun Jun 29, 2008 9:40 pm

What is the earliest date we could be seeing them? I know splinted ones went out of style in 1380s but how early would you find full plate cuisse?

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Mon Jun 30, 2008 12:28 am

From effigies I think it seems until the mid to late 1360s splinted ones look more common. In the 1370s this changes where most of the effigies I looked at seem to be becoming more and more one piece plate cuisses. In the 1350s everyone has splinted cuisses from what I can tell. I will keep looking and post any exceptions to this I may find.

RPM

Andrew Young · Post by **Andrew Young** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:08 pm

What do you define as plate? In other words, how long/wide does a piece of metal have to be in order for it to be considered....plate?

If splints dont qualify, well how about anime cuisses. We see some horizontal anime (overlapping) plate cuisses from 1360 onward.

Donal Mac Ruiseart · Post by **Donal Mac Ruiseart** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:31 pm

Are you sure "anime" is the right term? :?:

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:36 pm

Donal Mac Ruiseart wrote::?: Are you sure "anime" is the right term?

Well.. if we were talking later period Italian, then yeah, it's definitely the right term. I don't know the effigies Drew is referring to here, and haven't heard the anime appellation for anything that early, but - yes, "anime" is a perfectly good armour term.

Andrew Young · Post by **Andrew Young** » Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:08 am

eh, anime may or may not be correct for somethign this early, but its easier than saying 'horizontal overlapping cuisse lames" :wink:

James Arlen Gillaspie · Fri Jul 18, 2008 9:53 am

Here's a picture of what Andrew's talking about; it's c. 1380, from Castello di Pavia (?).

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:28 am

National Geographic sourced that one as from a French manuscript. Did they blow it? (The same book thought the pic of David removing a mid-thirteenth hauberk [Maciejowski 1 Samuel] was of a man putting one on.)

Lorenz De Thornham · Post by **Lorenz De Thornham** » Sat Jul 19, 2008 2:39 am

Not wishing to go off topic but, those edges to the bascinets look very similar to the covers over the vervelles that we see on some effigies of English Knights?

Lawrence

James Arlen Gillaspie · Sat Jul 19, 2008 10:16 am

If I'm reading Dr. Boccia right (Armi e Armature Lombarde), he says it's from Lancelot du Lac, c.1380, now at Paris, but from Castello di Pavia. "Un altro testo Francese illuminato in Lombardia, ricchissimo di testimonianze sull'armamento del tempo." Hmmm. The armour is molto Italian, the faces of the people are very Giotto (what I posted was a small bit of the whole picture), so I'm going to say that the text is French, but the illumination was done in Italy.

Andrew Young · Post by **Andrew Young** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 3:21 pm

Ah, thats it James...thanks.

One thing thats interesting to note is the rounded edges of some of the "lames." I would imagine they had some natural articulating ability, perhaps a crude attempt to incorporate what we will see in another century or so with respect to the longer upper cuisse and shorter fauld. On some level this technology would make sense given the use of coats of plates but the usefullness of any articulation over the full thigh is obviously debatable.

Plate Cuisses

Plate Cuisses

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