Circa 1350's English harness - now with extra goodness

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:23 pm

I thought as I have nearly completed getting this harness together, it was worthy of showing it for interest, comment, enjoyment etc. I believe I have gone into some detail in recreating the harness, which is based on D'aubernon/De Creke and similar era effigies and some creative interpretation. Things like the floreat rivets and detail on the sword belt are important for creating the right impression. The purpose of this kit is for jousting and mounted melÃ©e.

The armour was made by Joust1. The sword belt fittings were made by Joust1 as well. The maille is all FWR.

The jupon and horse caparison was made by Talisien Bleechmore from Blue Draco. I will post pics of the horsey stuff in few weeks.

Things still to do: Trim maille into period shape with flap at the front. Waiting on gamboised cuisses with maille chausses which will come soonish I hope. Await great helm. Make torse and mantle and carved crest. Hem jupon at front to appropriate level. Await custom made aketon due very soon.

Note: I realise the helm is a bit fanciful but decided I liked it and would keep it!

Enjoy. I will update the thread as I complete more parts of the harness. Would love to see more dudes doing this period and hope this may inspire people to do so.

Oh yeah and in my world a garage is something my wife hurls sh#t into to make the house look tidy. Sorry bout the mess.

<a href="http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll28 ... G_0820.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll28 ... G_0820.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://s291.photobucket.com/albums/ll28 ... G_0822.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll28 ... G_0822.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:59 pm

WOW!

Based on the d'Aubernon effigy?

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:34 pm

Strongbow wrote:WOW!

Based on the d'Aubernon effigy?

Partly. I have taken in a few influences including the d'Aubernon & De Creke effigies.

Mac Thamhais · Post by **Mac Thamhais** » Thu Aug 21, 2008 11:53 pm

HOLY CRAP!

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:26 am

Nice indeed, particularly to see it all together. You've shown us the CoP before, and very nice that was.

Mac Thamhais · Post by **Mac Thamhais** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:15 pm

I can't wait to see it completed, with all the bits that you are still waiting on. Keep the pics coming once they arrive.

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 2:36 pm

Can we see more shots of the gauntlets? They are quite interesting looking.

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 5:08 pm

lorenzo2 wrote:Can we see more shots of the gauntlets? They are quite interesting looking.

Sure can. I have posted these a long time ago but am happy to repost! If anyone is interested to see research stuff or work in progress pics just let me know. These are a speculative wisbyesque gauntlet. Using type 3 and 4 as I recall and with a view to creating a realistic bridge to the forthcoming hourglass style. They fit perfectly and have great movement.

Andrew Young · Post by **Andrew Young** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 10:26 pm

Very cool!

Doktormean/ Deitmar · Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:03 pm

god da,mn is that nice

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:29 pm

Envy, just envy.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:27 am

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:03 am

Dude, um, kit. Sell us a kit. No, seriously, I got Instant Wifely Approval(tm), as soon as she walked past the pictures on my laptop.

As a side note, I think something like this was very likely, as I see what looks like armored hands directly transitioning into some sort of brigandined/ splinted/ plated vambrace in a lot of 14c Hungarian art as well. While those often look like they're merely mail... something is going on there, and this is a neat interpretation.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:41 am

is that a rattan sword?

and how about a pic with the sword belt on?

and/or a pic with you wearing it....?

Mac Thamhais · Post by **Mac Thamhais** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:51 pm

BaronConal wrote:is that a rattan sword? SNIP

Doubtful. It looks like the cross guard would be too small to pass the 1.25 inch vs bar grills regulation.

But I might be wrong.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:53 pm

That would appear to be a Paul Chen "William Marshal" sword, or a close relation.

I think you have done an excellent job with the harness - one question though, are not the fluted bascinets that you have referenced thought to have been center points?

Starn · Post by **Starn** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:26 pm

Thats the Paul Chen "hanwei" practical medieval sword (at least I'm fairly certain anyway, looks just like the one in my living room Lol). Do you do steel weapon combat as well then? Nothing like the ring of steel on steel is there. Mind that helmet though it's far too nice to let someone put dents in it.

Very nice kit

, I hope to own one from the same era one day soon!

Strongbow · Post by **Strongbow** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 3:56 pm

chef de chambre wrote:That would appear to be a Paul Chen "William Marshal" sword, or a close relation.

I think you have done an excellent job with the harness - one question though, are not the fluted bascinets that you have referenced thought to have been center points?

I would think so... at least all the interpretations of them I've seen are like that. But given that none survive, I guess one could make such a speculative reconstruction. The visor is very nice. It makes the mind turn....

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:14 pm

You should photograph yourself lying on a long box in a church. Seriously.

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 6:15 pm

Thanks for those pics. The guantlets really help define the look of the kit.

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 8:42 pm

chef de chambre wrote:That would appear to be a Paul Chen "William Marshal" sword, or a close relation.

A hanwei single handed practical sword indeed. I got this one cause the balance isn't too bad and it's mainly for skill at arms on horseback (killing fruit and vegetables). That being said, I have done some live steel Lichtenauer stuff with a hanwei hand and a half and that did the job nicely. I may do some Fiore/1.33 a bit later on. Learning to joust and getting kit together is time consuming enough.

chef de chambre wrote:I think you have done an excellent job with the harness - one question though, are not the fluted bascinets that you have referenced thought to have been center points?

Aah yes Chef, you are on the money. When I looked at the finished piece there were 2 immediate 'issues'. One that the point was too far back and the second that the fluting was probably a bit too deep. However I did think, though it was highly speculative, I loved it and was prepared to live with it! I was really impressed with Joust1's interpretation of the visor. As you will note the occular are reasonable big, the visor is intended for use in mounted melÃ©e and as the period predated bar grill style visors I wanted to get as much vision as possible without distorting the look. For IJL/IJA style jousting, I will remove the visor and wear a great helm over the top.

Next week I get the sword & belt, some splinted cuisses, slightly later period spaulders and a great helm. As soon as I have the crest, torse and mantle done I will jump on Leo (pony) and then post some shots.

Thanks for the kind comments all. I have put a lot of effort and research into making this as good a kit for the period as I can. Again, hopefully I can encourage more dudes into kitting up for this very interesting period.

Andrew Young · Post by **Andrew Young** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:08 pm

adamstjohn wrote:You should photograph yourself lying on a long box in a church. Seriously.

Id pay to see that.....

when people get close, jump up at them.

.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:13 pm

Guillaume,

Those are very handsome gauntlets!

It's strange, how the #5 cuffs are so shy on rivets to attach them to the gloves (or any thing else for that mater). I don't remember having ever noticed it before, but I just now looked in Thordeman to refresh my memory.

You did well to make the strap and buckle emerge from slots. It's a nice touch, and it adds a lot.

Kudos!

Mac

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:42 pm

adamstjohn wrote:You should photograph yourself lying on a long box in a church. Seriously.

If that's what you want I will illustrate it in photoshop for you. At least I can refer to the effigy if any historinazis gives me grief about the accuracy of the harness.

I like it!

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:04 am

Looking good!

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:33 am

Fantastic!

Is that for SCA?
If So, I'll beg you for an action pic for http://warriorsofhistory.com when its done.

...again Fantastic.

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 8:33 am

Guillaume de Channynge wrote: At least I can refer to the effigy if any historinazis gives me grief about the accuracy of the harness.

I look forward to that!

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:51 am

More stuff to look at. Mainly:
Sword & belt with rest of kit.
Slightly later period spaulders.
New cuisses with floreat rivets.
All done by Joust1. Well done I say!!!

I am in love with the sword belt and fittings. I have not seen anything like it! Ain't it sexy =)

Enjoy.

More to come.

Cheers
Andrew

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:47 am

could you get shots of the inside of the arms with both sets of spaulders?

Just wanna see how he solves the problems i have mouning similar stuff.

And a closer up shot of the knees would rule

Thats just beautiful stuff.

Mac Thamhais · Post by **Mac Thamhais** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:18 am

most impressive

Daniel S · Post by **Daniel S** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:42 am

Thanks for the pictures! Its really great seeing an armour in process from this period. I'm building one from this period too so I have a question: Would it be possible to get some photos from the inside of the helmet?

I have almost finished raising a bascinet and I intend to have the mail fastened on the inside instead of the more commonly seen outside arrangement. My options are to either go with holes and fabric bands (as seen on the helmets in the Romance of Alexander) or to rivet a leather band to the inside of the helmet and fasten the mail to this. I see that you have gone with the rivet arrangement but it would me nice to see how some problems have been solved. I was actually thinking of having the rivets lower than you have them and have a really stiff leather band to which the mail can be fastened just above the rivets, and then fasten the stuffing arrangement above the fastening of the mail. Thereby both can be removed and repaired independently. The stuffing for the mail I thought of just attaching to the mail itself.

Again, really inspiring work!

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:10 pm

Some more progress at last on this harness. Great helm with wrapper for the joust. Crest by Sir Angus from the AA. Here is the torse and mantle, pinned up and ready to sew and stuff. Made from fashion grade leather for durability.

[img]http://66.201.107.55/Helmtorsemantle1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://66.201.107.55/Helmtorsemantle2.jpg[/img]

Enjoy.

ARMOURER ERIC · Post by **ARMOURER ERIC** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:24 pm

Any chance you can get us a head to toe shot, maybe with you wearing it?

Eric

Andrew McKinnon · Post by **Andrew McKinnon** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 4:10 am

Soon my friends. Big reenactor conference coming up in Sydney. Will kit up on horseback with caparison chamfron and the full shebang.Will get plenty of photos!!!

Jehan de Pelham · Post by **Jehan de Pelham** » Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:25 am

Exemplary.

John
Jehan de Pelham, ecuyer and servant of Sir Vitus
www.mron.org