Armor requirments for the Battle of the Thirty?

Hospitaller@Acre · Post by **Hospitaller@Acre** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:41 pm

Could some one post the armor requirements for the combat and rules..thanks
Rannulf

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:40 pm

A minimum would be a great helm, Coat of Plates, Gamboissed Cuisses with poleyns, greaves, and gauntlets.

Keep in mind that that is a very general description, and although sounding sort of boring, can be dressed up a whole lot! (Ailettes, crests, etc).

g-

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:42 am

I'll dig up some effigies from around then and post them

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:38 pm

Here ya go. I have these bookmarked on my computer..
http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20cen ... armour.htm

Should give you a good idea.. By the way Murdoch is responsible for this being bookmarked on my puter. He referenced it and I latched on to it like a tick on a hound.

Hospitaller@Acre · Post by **Hospitaller@Acre** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:15 pm

I saw Master Magnus fight in the 30 last year in a kettle..is a kettle ok..with or without a mail aventail?
Rannulf

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 5:47 pm

Kettle helm would be quite period for this event. As has been noted in other threads. The kettle went from 13th century right up til the 15th. SO yeah a kettle would be appropriate.
The one thing to remember about a kettle helm. In the 30, a face thrust or strike across the bargrill is fatal to you. This is not to discourage it's use, simply to forewarn.
The combat conventions in the 30 are different from most other fighting venues I've ever encounted.. Personally I love it.

maxntropy · Post by **maxntropy** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:11 pm

Angusm0628 wrote:Here ya go. I have these bookmarked on my computer..
http://www.themcs.org/armour/14th%20cen ... armour.htm

Hey...

None of that armour can be all that good...

All those guys are dead!!

':lol:'

Max Von Halstern

Dafydd · Post by **Dafydd** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 8:31 pm

Angusm0628 wrote:Kettle helm would be quite period for this event. As has been noted in other threads. The kettle went from 13th century right up til the 15th. SO yeah a kettle would be appropriate.
The one thing to remember about a kettle helm. In the 30, a face thrust or strike across the bargrill is fatal to you. This is not to discourage it's use, simply to forewarn.
The combat conventions in the 30 are different from most other fighting venues I've ever encounted.. Personally I love it.

I love this idea on so many levels. Not just the beauty of recreating the historic Deed, but the idea of fighting with consideration to the actual armor worn.

"Armor as worn" tournaments that try to include a wide range of periods have, of course, a built-in inequality. That's why we have the "SCA standard suit" for the purpose of counting blows. But when everyone's in the same period, it works!

I'd love to be in this some day (near 30 year SCA veteran...never been to Pennsic!). Although my persona (and war armor) date from the early 16th, my single combat rig is correct: coat-of-plates, early pattern plate legs, wisby-style gauntlets, cops, and soon, a kettle hat.

Skutai · Post by **Skutai** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 6:24 am

Throughout the years, I've seen an odd mix of armor at the 30, from plastic gauntlets to plate and chain.

Is plastic forbidden at the CoT, or just discouraged? Is the line drawn on appearance or the actual materials used to make one's armor?

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:38 am

Skutai wrote:Throughout the years, I've seen an odd mix of armor at the 30, from plastic gauntlets to plate and chain.

Is plastic forbidden at the CoT, or just discouraged? Is the line drawn on appearance or the actual materials used to make one's armor?

Maille and plate would be appropriate as this was part of the transitional era. It would be the style of plate however.
The gauntlets I think are a concession to the safety requirements of the SCA.
If plastic is forbidden I'm in trouble. My rig has no exposed plastic but my cuisses have plastic riveted inside as splints under the leather. And I did fight it.

white mountain armoury · Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:06 am

Plastic gaunts are not allowed, or atleast that is my understanding.
This should be a venue for the highest levels of authenticity in SCA Combat.
Greaves should be worn, or maile chausses as well.

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 9:12 am

I saw a pair of gaunts I thought may have been Eggs this year. I could have been wrong. hardened black leather is possible. I was on the completely opposite side of the field from them.

St. George · Post by **St. George** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:33 am

Those gaunts were probably Edmund's and they are leather.

g-

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:40 am

Yup. Edmund's are leather.

I had a hidden plastic breastplate but I felt dirty. Next year will be hardcore. Wait til you guys see what I am making....you will die.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:59 am

My big beef now with the rigs is that the clothes aren't up to the armour.

I saw several people wearing they're heraldic surcoats under their bp.

Now you have Walter VonHoenkilingen (sp?) with the globose on the outside and some other depictions of bare white harness. But really we should have heraldry exposed.

i wore my golden brocade covered globose on the outside of my black and white houpelan thingie, so i'm sorta guilty too.

But in general the soft kits need to come up a little more to match the hard kits.

The kits keep getting more complete and closer to the date. I think we had one sallet this year, that was all i saw.

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:56 am

I agree. The sleeveless surcoats should be OVER the body armour whenever possible.

white mountain armoury · Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:44 pm

I recomend looking at the Soldiers at the Holy Sepulchre from the Strasbourg Cathedral, c. 1340-1345.
These are excellently carved in crazy deep relief with a great amount of detail, its an excellent source for putting together a kit for the 30, just a few years earlier than the actual deed.
An excellent source for the "man at arms"

Leo Medii · Post by **Leo Medii** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:50 pm

There is more than an armor requirement.

You MUST have the right mindset to fight this deed.

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:55 pm

Aside from the armour requirements, how does one get in? Do we sign up, get chosen by a captain? Draw straws?

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:30 pm

There really should be a faq for the Thirty. A whole website.

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:43 pm

Mid set is alot as Leo says.

I remeber Rhy's speach at the first one, his talking of who"had no right to be on this field of honor"

His explanation of a "stout blow".

i remember finally "feeling" the job of a squier on the field.

It feels of a more medieval mind.

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:47 pm

Mind set is as important as kit.
This will I hazard present more and more of a challenge for the captains as a greater range of talent acquires or builds kits appropriate to the Combat and seek sentry.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:51 pm

white mountain armoury wrote:I recomend looking at the Soldiers at the Holy Sepulchre from the Strasbourg Cathedral, c. 1340-1345.
These are excellently carved in crazy deep relief with a great amount of detail, its an excellent source for putting together a kit for the 30, just a few years earlier than the actual deed.
An excellent source for the "man at arms"

My web-fu is weak today. Do you know a direct link to the images?

Effingham

Adrielle Kerrec · Post by **Adrielle Kerrec** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:10 pm

http://flickr.com/photos/13973564@N07/1635738828

Adrielle

Angusm0628 · Post by **Angusm0628** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 7:19 pm

bookmarked that sucker for sure... thanks

Galvyn Lockhart · Post by **Galvyn Lockhart** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:26 pm

Egg gauntlets have been used in the past as recent as last year, so unless the ban was new this year, I'd say they were legal. In general, plastic should be covered for the Thirty, but hand protection can be a sticky issue. This year they made greaves a requirement. So they keep looking for ways to improve the field every year.

There were actually no sallets that fought in the Thirty this year. The one that was on the field prior to the Thirty wasn't allowed to fight w/ us. The wearer is a good friend & I told him that I didn't think it was likely they would let him on the field. He was still disappointed when Sir Johannes gave him the hook. I felt bad for him. He'll probably be back next year w/ an appropriate look.

Vladimir,

To get chosen for the Thirty, it's probably easiest to contact one of the captains directly. Send an e-mail w/ a pic of your kit and maybe a name of one of the Thirty that would vouch for you. That's how I did it.

white mountain armoury · Tue Sep 02, 2008 6:30 am

I mentioned the EGG gaunts to Keiran last year after the fact, I believe he said they should not have been out there, I recall the person wearing them had a nice kit other than the EGGs.
I will make an effort at the next 30 to bring some extra gauntlets for folks

Johannes · Post by **Johannes** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 9:16 am

Egg Gauntlets are pretty much not allowed, but due to the nature of putting together a team of strangers, often at the last minute, things get by that shouldn't. The gentleman with the sallet was my worst moment from this year, he had a decent rig except the helmet, and was very gracious when I informed him I couldn't let him fight. I hope he gets a helmet for next year, I'd love to have him on the field with us, it obviously meant alot to him.

Besides greaves, our commitment this year was to cut out non-germane rigs. Even the best rigs stand out as wrong if they are from the wrong era. In that spirit, when the sallet was brought to my attention, I talked to him. We had the cleanest look of any 30 because of it.

Mind set is the hardest thing to overcome, IMO. This particular deed is more "real" than most of what we do in the SCA. It is based on a trust we don't exercise that often, and is liberating to be able to do so.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 2:53 pm

Thanks for that link!

Efffingham

Ceawlin Alreding · Post by **Ceawlin Alreding** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 4:46 pm

Could (should) we (I) start a "I wanna be a COT guy" thread in the "I wanna be...."threads?

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 5:01 pm

Yeah probly

Lucian Ro · Post by **Lucian Ro** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:10 pm

Do we know whom the Captain of the English is yet for next Gulf Wars and/or Pennsic?

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:13 pm

For Pennsic it's Johannes again

Ewan · Post by **Ewan** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:43 am

Hey!
This: http://flickr.com/photos/roelipilami/16 ... otostream/

is me! I just need to add the greaves and the polyens and the gamboissed cuisses.... should I have said this WILL be me?
Does it look like he is wearing a COP to anyone?

DeCalmont · Post by **DeCalmont** » Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:49 am

Ceawlin Alreding wrote:Could (should) we (I) start a "I wanna be a COT guy" thread in the "I wanna be...."threads?

Done;
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=85680