wheels, dammit, wheels

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:53 pm

One of my biggest weaknesses throughout my martial arts career has been my footspeed and lower leg strength. It is time to fix that. I have begun doing hill sprints but I would like some input on further ideas for building up my footspeed and lower leg strength. What do ya'll suggest?

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 2:59 pm

Stair exercises are good for all sorts of things.
Ascend the stairs any way you would like for each set (one/two/three at a time), but descend one at a time, swiftly. Falling down the stairs because you're skipping steps or going too fast looks awful silly...or so I've been told...

Adam

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:21 pm

I asked a similar question to a marathon runner here in the office. His comment was "to improve running speed, the best thing to do is...run."
His went on to say that any exercise you do to try mimic the results of running will fall short. You can do other exercises that will isolate weak areas (glutes, groin etc), but then you lose out not only on the areas you're not isolating, but on the mechanical efficiency of the muscle groups that are needed to work in unison to actually run. Not to mention the cardio that is the biggest benefit you will get from running.

Some people's problem is not so much leg muscle strength but stamina. You might be able to run as fast as anyone for about 10 yards, but then poop out, which will do you no good in a 40 yard dash.

Now, having said all of that, running is a hazardous routine because it puts a lot of pressure on your lower body and can cause problems with knees and ankle joints. And I know one person who recently passed because he wanted to get into better shape, and died from a heart attack because he evidently wasn't ready for the strains of a serious jog. So I have my own taboos about running.
I also don't like to just go from point A to B without a reason, and when jogging, you never no how far before you get whiped out and have to crawl back home to crash. E.g. it's good and all to say "I'm going to run upto the local store and leave the car at home", but when you get there and realize the stuff you bought (thought it's just a dozen eggs and a loaf of bread) make the hike back feel like a death march.

I'd suggest investing in a tennis racket, frisbee or a soccer ball or some other sport that incorporates running, but makes it fun and you can move at your own pace. But then you may need someone to play with (a dog will work), otherwise you'll be getting your run on by retrieving the frisby every time you toss it.

Note: I never said it was a good suggestion.
-Cian

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:42 pm

Cian, dude, I'm not total slug. :shock:

I ride my bike to work every day and I can walk plenty far. Plus I don't jog, ever. That shit's bad for you. Long slow distance endurance isn't the problem. Heck, I regularly carry my bike plus three or four bags of groceries up four flights of stairs to my apartment. Every so often I have to carry a couple of twenty pound bags of dog food, cat food and cat litter up four flights.

I'm looking for things like plyos, sprints, stairs and ways to build my foot and calf strength. Things to make my footspeed better, so my footwork improves. Agility, vertical jump, broad jump, stuff like that.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:46 pm

Cian's first line is true.
If you want better footwork, practice footwork. It really is the best way. Cross-training is very limited when it comes to preparing muscles for use. It's good for cardio though.
I can provide cites about this stuff if anyone if interested in looking further into it.
Audax do you have access to a good reference library?

Adam

raito · Post by **raito** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:59 pm

If you know where to step, you can probably take your time getting there.

It's not that I have a problem with speed, but I do think it's a relatively small part of footwork. I regularly beat guys who can smoke me in a sprint with footwork. I do that by figuring out where to step long before they do.

That said, running won't really improve your footspeed for SCA combat all that much (it won't make it worse either, really).

Practice using explosive leg exercises to get your legs moving your body RIGHT NOW. Practice footwork so that your body isn't moving up and down and sapping your effort (besides taking extra energy it also makes your body move a longer distance).

Look at what other athletes do. Look at what fencers do to improve lunges (not that we lunge all that much in armour, but they do go from stop to go pretty quick). Look at what football players do to get moving off the snap. Look at what sprinters do to improve their start. Go for acceleration, not top velocity, as you're only taking a couple steps.

Also, I read somehwere that it was found that running at the same pace is only good for the sport of running, but crap bor basketball (which is what the study was about). Basketball players constantly change direction and speed, but by running distances at a constant speed, their body got used to doing that. Just food for thought.

As others have said, find exercises that resemble the movements you want to improve.

Adamo · Post by **Adamo** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:04 pm

Sprinters lift weights, wear running flats with spikes, and push off of those little platforms to get better starts. They also practice starting...a lot.
Football players also wear cleats.

So the message from that is...practice what you're doing. Or wear cleats, I'm not sure.

Adam

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:12 pm

Get a puppy who likes chewing on toes.

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:14 pm

I'm with raito: I'm a slug. It *sounds* (and we haven't played), that what you're actually having trouble with, is offline movement and angle-cutting. Most people who are used to the weight of their harness don't actually need any additional strength.

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:37 pm

Russ Mitchell wrote:I'm with raito: I'm a slug. It *sounds* (and we haven't played), that what you're actually having trouble with, is offline movement and angle-cutting. Most people who are used to the weight of their harness don't actually need any additional strength.

Hmmm...yes, angle cutting and offline movement is exactly what I'm trying to improve. What do you suggest for that?

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:41 pm

audax wrote:
Russ Mitchell wrote:I'm with raito: I'm a slug. It *sounds* (and we haven't played), that what you're actually having trouble with, is offline movement and angle-cutting. Most people who are used to the weight of their harness don't actually need any additional strength.

Hmmm...yes, angle cutting and offline movement is exactly what I'm trying to improve. What do you suggest for that?

Salsa, swing, or another energetic dance, preferably with a partner, so you get punished if you screw up. (like when they stomp on your foot).

SRSLY.. dance classes.

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:44 pm

So taking raito's advice, I checked out some basketball drills for vertical jump and agility. What I find is lots of jumping, stair running, rope jumping, etc. I'll give it a whirl.

What I'm trying to do and this maybe total insanity and hubris, is fight as close to Duke Aaron MacGregor's level as I can get. If I can do that, I'll be pretty happy with myself.

Russ Mitchell · Post by **Russ Mitchell** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:35 pm

Here's a couple I have my students do (and my failure to do it once this weekend cost me a waster thrust in the nose, so I'm usually pretty motivated to get the hell offline).

Starting with slow work, your opponent makes a cut. It *must* be the same cut, over and over again -- this is a specific practice drill -- and it should be one of the ones you have to deal with regularly. For me and machetes, which is how I learned to do it, that was a typical 45. But pick anything you like.

He'll start cutting slowly. When his cut has finished, you must be standing behind the arm that threw the cut. You *may* touch his arm. You *may not* redirect it.

You will find that this is much, MUCH easier, albeit counterintuitive, if you use the same arm to track/touch/guide past his arm that he uses to cut. He cuts with the right arm, you get your right side going first. We've got this, or some variation, in all the lineages I've trained in, and it's also in Leckuchner's messerfechten.

Then step it up, slowly and gradually until you "know" that angle well enough that your partner can Bring the Comet and you don't care. Then slow it back down, and have him pick another angle not too far from the same idea.

If you switch up the feeder and the avoider, you can both benefit from this, and if you're ever in DFW, I can show you variations either unarmed, or with, well, all kinds of different stuff.

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:41 pm

Maeryk wrote:
audax wrote:
Russ Mitchell wrote:I'm with raito: I'm a slug. It *sounds* (and we haven't played), that what you're actually having trouble with, is offline movement and angle-cutting. Most people who are used to the weight of their harness don't actually need any additional strength.

Hmmm...yes, angle cutting and offline movement is exactly what I'm trying to improve. What do you suggest for that?

Salsa, swing, or another energetic dance, preferably with a partner, so you get punished if you screw up. (like when they stomp on your foot).

SRSLY.. dance classes.

Well, heck, I'm a pretty good salsa dancer and two stepper.

I'm beginning to wonder what my damned deal is.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 5:54 pm

audax wrote:
Maeryk wrote:
audax wrote:
Russ Mitchell wrote:I'm with raito: I'm a slug. It *sounds* (and we haven't played), that what you're actually having trouble with, is offline movement and angle-cutting. Most people who are used to the weight of their harness don't actually need any additional strength.

Hmmm...yes, angle cutting and offline movement is exactly what I'm trying to improve. What do you suggest for that?

Salsa, swing, or another energetic dance, preferably with a partner, so you get punished if you screw up. (like when they stomp on your foot).

SRSLY.. dance classes.

Well, heck, I'm a pretty good salsa dancer and two stepper.

I'm beginning to wonder what my damned deal is.

It's because you avoid the worm.

IE: you don't walk (or step) with rhythym.

Everything has a rhythym. Fighting is no different.

Find it, use it.. find your beat, work with it, step with it.

watch this if you have questions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMZwZiU0kKs

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:36 pm

That was freakin' awesome. Did Walken do the dancing in that?

Anywho, I take your meaning and I'll work on finding the worm.

Thanks, my friend. :wink:

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:46 pm

audax wrote:That was freakin' awesome. Did Walken do the dancing in that?

Anywho, I take your meaning and I'll work on finding the worm.

Thanks, my friend.

hell YES Walken did it!

He's an old vaudeville man, learned song and dance as a child.

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 6:48 pm

Maybe I should take up tap-dancing. :shock:

iomtalach · Post by **iomtalach** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:15 pm

http://www.soccerxpert.com/fitness.aspx

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:22 pm

audax wrote:Maybe I should take up tap-dancing.

Free form is better, really.. tap teaches you not to ever set your weight.

ballet might be a better idea.. (kidding, kinda)

But seriously.. it's a dance. Everything is a dance. If you treat fighting like adaptive, interpretive dance.. you have it. the feet mean something, the hands mean something.. primarily "keep me from saying OW!" but yeah.. that's the trick.

The worm.. let it eat you.

audax · Post by **audax** » Fri Oct 03, 2008 7:46 pm

Dancing...of course.

I just need to freakin' dance. I love to dance, why ain't I been doin' it?

Such a goob sometimes I am. :roll:

white mountain armoury · Sat Oct 04, 2008 8:47 am

I agree with dance, great for footwork.
And as others may have mentioned, knowing where to move and when to do it is more important than speed.
My fencing instructor used to say age and deceit beats youth and speed any day.
If you do pell work dont stand there and throw shots at it, move around it.

Hrolfr · Post by **Hrolfr** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:17 am

Audax, if you are going to skip rope, get a GOOD one, leatheroid with roller bearing handles if you can afford it.

A good rope, does make a difference.

bhaiduk · Post by **bhaiduk** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:57 am

For speed and agility I think ladder drills work wonders. You have to use rhythym, just like dancing, but it can be stuctured more like a workout. You can make a ladder by tapeing a grid onto your carpet, or using the tiles in the kitchen. I googled it and found this web page http://hoskinsjohn.bizland.com/betterplayer/id25.html with some drills lined out about 1/3 of the way down the page. We did this stuff when I was in high school playing basketball and football. It realy helps your agility and speed.

audax · Post by **audax** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:01 pm

I do have a good rope. I need to get some good dance music.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:31 pm

For overall lower body strength, it's my thought that you just can't beat squats.

Saburou · Post by **Saburou** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:50 pm

Wind sprints. Think you can run a mile easily? OK, start there. Now run a mile, but go 100 paces jogging, 50 paces sprinting, 100 paces walking, then 100 paces jogging, then sprinting, and so on. Gets a lot harder, much more like fighting.

Increase the number of paces you sprint by 10 each week. I can now run 3-3.5 miles before I'm gassed, but I just can't get past 2.5 miles doing wind sprints.

audax · Post by **audax** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:51 pm

I have this crazy idea to dance in my armour with my helmet, weapon and sheild. With the blinds drawn of course. My neighbors already think I'm nuts.

Hrolfr · Post by **Hrolfr** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 2:57 pm

get ahold of Vitus for his hindu squat regimen :wink:

white mountain armoury · Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:14 pm

audax wrote:I have this crazy idea to dance in my armour with my helmet, weapon and sheild. With the blinds drawn of course. My neighbors already think I'm nuts.

Ive done it, not in a while, I mow the lawn in kit as well especially inthe hot summer.
I prefer a waltz tempo as its more inline with my movement rate when I fight.

Sinister_Theo · Post by **Sinister_Theo** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 3:25 pm

Get a selection of songs that are about 30 minutes in length total..
Choose several songs that are varied in tempo.
Set your music player to shuffle.
Put on your armor.
Move within your fighting footwork to the beat.
Your dance partner is an imaginary target, or a person if you have one that is willing.
Learn to lead and to follow and to lead again, etc.
Stay within your footwork.
To increase leg strength do 10 hindu squats at the beginning of each song.

audax · Post by **audax** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:06 pm

Theoderic wrote:Get a selection of songs that are about 30 minutes in length total..
Choose several songs that are varied in tempo.
Set your music player to shuffle.
Put on your armor.
Move within your fighting footwork to the beat.
Your dance partner is an imaginary target, or a person if you have one that is willing.
Learn to lead and to follow and to lead again, etc.
Stay within your footwork.
To increase leg strength do 10 hindu squats at the beginning of each song.

Nice.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:42 pm

Theoderic wrote:Get a selection of songs that are about 30 minutes in length total..
Choose several songs that are varied in tempo.
sset your music player to shuffle.
.

http://www.djsteveboy.com/podrunner.html

An exercise borrowed from a fencer I know.

Get in proper stance. Flex your legs and drop your center as much as you feel comfortable. Drop it a little more, and then SPRING straight up into the air, using solely your legs. When you come down (keep your legs bent!), land in proper stance and move forward several paces, utilizing whatever proper footwork techniques you are following. At the end of several paces, do the 'SPRING' again. Do this several times in succession. Enjoy. You will hate life right quick.

When this becomes no more a challenge, do it in armour. Ho, ho.

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 4:45 pm

Oh, and this.
http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.d ... 281eac____

Iain (Bunny) Ruadh · Post by **Iain (Bunny) Ruadh** » Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:09 pm

Imagine all the football and 300 training vids you've seen of them doing runs/sprints/sequencing thru tire drills. It's what we did in H.S. for track/pole-vault, in the military for riot drills in boot camp and later in my pro-rehab for ACL rebuild therapy. Buy an 'escape' ladder and toss down onto the ground ... look silly but do a 'speed/agression' drill forward on it doing '1...2' into the center .. then '1..2' fast step to the left .. then '1..2' fast step back to the center .. then '1..2' fast step to the right ...

After the 1st week my PT (read: personal pain coach) had me bring in my helm, sword and shield for weight .. we did it for 6 weeks ...