Wooden box hinge

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:24 pm

I found a pic of someones box hinge that I liked and used some time ago but I don't remember if it was a nifty thing or based on historical items. If it is historically based, I'd like to know from where. I like the hinge I stole/borrowed but I can't remember from where. Anyone know where I got it (pic links below)? Thanks in advance.

Jon

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31107656@N04/3123890336/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31107656@N04/3121318466/

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 6:27 pm

Well, I can show you existing ones from the 1700's, and it's logical enough that it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to go as far back as joinery goes.

I think there's at least two in the museum in Delaware.. is it Winterthur? It's one of the big old houses that's been converted over to a "museum" where they move complete period rooms (and I mean walls, floors, ceiling, furniture, etc) into it.

Talbot · Post by **Talbot** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:34 pm

These are common on 14th and 15th century trunks. The holy grail of Chest books Die gothiscen truhen der Luneberger Heidekloster has many examples of this type of hinge.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:42 pm

I'm ABSOLUTELT horrible about remembering
to add notes to photos I save....

but this is a 14th century chest....

I think I got the pictures here or from a link I got here....

it's on my list of things to make someday....

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:57 am

Interesting - the front-to-back slope on that lid. Please please figure out the source.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:59 am

asking about it on

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/medievalsawdust/

Dierick · Post by **Dierick** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:11 am

What is the hook looking thing for on the back?

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:14 am

Dierick wrote:What is the hook looking thing for on the back?

my guess is it's a odd hinge to supplement the wooden hinge.

I think the 'hook' is a staple that lets the link slide down when the
chest is opened

Johannes The Bald · Post by **Johannes The Bald** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:10 pm

Baron Conal wrote:I'm ABSOLUTELT horrible about remembering
to add notes to photos I save....

but this is a 14th century chest....

I think I got the pictures here or from a link I got here....

it's on my list of things to make someday....

Conal It is from

http://www.marhamchurchantiques.co.uk/

current stock.

Charles Oakley posted it to the Medieval sawdust after I sent him a link.

Johannes Machiavelli.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:20 pm

Hey Jay.. what is Chas. username on the MedSaw list? (I'm assuming you mean the Yahoo one?)

I want to show him what his X chair patterns turned into in my shop.

MJBlazek · Post by **MJBlazek** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:25 pm

while probably not period.. or at least our "period" Rob Cosman has a pretty cool dvd on making a wooden hinge box

http://www.woodcraft.com/product.aspx?P ... lyID=80005

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:47 pm

A rare late 14th century oak clamp front chest, with butterfly lockplate and chain and link strap hinges,with til inside, in perfect condition.See ( Die gotischen Truhen der Luneburger Heideloster ) book for identical examples dating to the 1390's and with similar hinges and lockplates.

Johannes The Bald · Post by **Johannes The Bald** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:13 pm

Maeryk wrote:Hey Jay.. what is Chas. username on the MedSaw list? (I'm assuming you mean the Yahoo one?)

I want to show him what his X chair patterns turned into in my shop.

I sent you a PM Maeryk, with teh requested info.

Johannes Machiavelli.

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:19 pm

Baron Conal wrote:
Dierick wrote:What is the hook looking thing for on the back?
my guess is it's a odd hinge to supplement the wooden hinge.

I think the 'hook' is a staple that lets the link slide down when the
chest is opened

I'm thinking it's for security. Someone could easily pry on the lid and pop, or cut or pry out and replace the wooden hinge pin, but the link stapled into the back prevents the lid from being removed without extra effort and significant tell-tale damage.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 2:56 pm

Because the top of the chest lid is as far as it is from the pivot
center of the hinge you need to take that distance into account.
The link allows that hinge to move with the lid. Without that
'sliding' joint on the metal hinge it would bind up and not allow
the chest to be opened.

Now, I'm not saying that the metal hinge was not added to make
the whole thing more secure, just explaining how I think that
the hinge itself works.

As it is it's not going to stop a determined effort to access the
contents, but it is a more secure chest with that extra metal hinge.

Milan H · Post by **Milan H** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:18 pm

What i dont see that seems interesting is that there isnt a place for the lock to latch onto the lid. It doesnt look like there have been repairs made to the lid, and there dont seem to be holes there for it either... I bet that it has rods that lock into the Tenon on the lid supports. The left mortise also has the bottom of it broken off, which would support this theory. (tight fit? Pried on? accidently lifted by the lid?) I wonder if the owner would get us pictures of the inside of the front panels?

Edit: corrected terms

Cheers,

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:26 pm

two other pictures of it

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:32 pm

Milan H wrote:What i dont see that seems interesting is that there isnt a place for the lock to latch onto the lid. It doesnt look like there have been repairs made to the lid, and there dont seem to be holes there for it either... I bet that it has rods that lock into the Tenon on the lid supports. The left mortise also has the bottom of it broken off, which would support this theory. (tight fit? Pried on? accidently lifted by the lid?) I wonder if the owner would get us pictures of the inside of the front panels?

Edit: corrected terms

Cheers,

I see no indication of that on the chest's lid....
( especially the far side of the lid which shows the
inside of the lid support )

It is entirely possible that the lock plate was added later
as a decorative item...

We need a picture of the inside to be sure either way.

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:28 am

I'm pretty certain the lock plate and the iron straps are later additions.

Why not just make the hinges metal in the first place if you're going to use metal? You make wooden hinges if you are making it inexpensive and you don't care much about security. The staple loop in front is also a likely en even later add-on. About the lock hasps, they likely were there, but have just been lost.

There's another restoration apparent. There's a light rectangle on the upper left leg in front.

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:02 am

Excellent selection of pictures. I was able to get a good overview of the chest and its details.

Generally, it would be rare to have a chest of that size without some form of lock. I'll try to check my sources tonight or tomorrow and see if I can get a statistic on that. Also, the metal straps, as you suggested, appear to be for security rather than redundant hinges. They would keep someone from secretly prying apart the two planks making up the top and circumventing the lock.

As I remember, there are several chests in my sources with both the wooden end-hinge and extensive ironwork.

More later, when I can check my library...

Brandr · Post by **Brandr** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:59 pm

Hmmmm.....it is time for a new armor box.

Thanks for the inspiration!

Cap'n Atli · Post by **Cap'n Atli** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:58 pm

A quick check of the books in my library shows what appears to be a universal use of lock plates on these chests, sometimes in combination with hasps for padlocks.

One nice ironwork feature is a shaped plate (rounded at the top to fit the contour) riveted over the the vertical section that receives the hinge pin. Some of the chests with this style hinge are heavily ironed, but others just have a lock plate. It probably depended upon time, place, fashion, need and the phase of the moon; although I suspect that the greater the wealth and/or insecurity, the more ironwork it would receive. The box at the end was usually under a coin slot so that offerings/donations could be readily deposited. A tempting target!