Did anyone save that thread on etching? I was going to turn it into a basics tutorial.
------------------
Ben Schenkman
Order of Selohaar
The Phoenix Forge
Etching?
Here you go, well at least part of it:
Etching - The Armour Archive -- Discussion Boards
Armour - Design and Construction
Etching
Author Topic: Etching
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 11:47 AM
Lately I've been messing around with galvonic etching. Has anyone
else used this process? I happened to find out about it while out
cruising the net. The author inquestion used it to etch exacting
pieces out of thin spring steel.
Its most interesting attribute are that you don't need any toxic or
hazardous chemicals (just table salt and water), it works equally
well on Steel, Copper and Brass (I've even read that it works on
Stainless though I've not tried that yet), It is much more exacting
than acid etching and brings out finer details with less
undercutting.
Additionally I've found that it works well with photo resists such
as is used in circuit board manufacture which allows me to print out
the design to be etched on an overhead sheet, expose the piece to be
etched , remove the unexposed resist and etch away, producing
duplicates easily.
Have any of you tried this method other than me?
IP: Logged
SelannDOG
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:20 PM
Can you provide a link to the process or a description? I'd like to
check it out.
IP: Logged
cai_dubhghlas
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:24 PM
Sounds very interesting, could you describe the process farther? I
had etched over 300 pieces using ferric chloride, aqua regia, and
nitric on brass, aluminum, and steel... but am still searching for a
safe way to etch stainless as demand grows for it.
I have had one process like this described to me once before that
uses rock salt from walmart and water... saturated solution and then
a car battery charger to provide the electrical current for the
etching. Is this along the lines you are talking. I havent had time
to try it out yet.
Cai
Vatavia,Calontir
IP: Logged
Signo
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 12:44 PM
The process is very simple:
You make a salted bath (usually the salt of the same chemical
species involved)(but i find that NaCl is enough).
Then you need a AC/DC converter (you don't need too much power, 12V
is enough for almost all chemical elements).
Now you must link the + with a metal piece and put it in the bath.
Do the same with the -.
Now starts the magic! The electric charge make metal atoms go into
solution, and then drop themselves on the other electrod.
Now i don't remember in which direction the ions travels, but you
can do a simple trial with a piece of copper and one of metal.. if
the metal turn red, the copper is going over the metal, if the
copper turn black.. viceversa.
To use this process to etch a piece of metal, you must detach metal
particle from the scratches left over the protected surface like
with a normal acid.
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:53 PM
Materials:
Table Salt
Water
Plastic Container
Car Battery Charger
An automotive light bulb
A Scrap of metal
Etch Resist (See Notes)
Setup:
Fill the plastic container with warm water and 1TBSP of salt per
pint of water. Stir until the salt is disolved. Place a plate of
scrap metal into the salt water (the electrode). Attach this plate
to the negative terminal of the car battery charger (this connection
should be above the water line). Attach the positive terminal of the
charger to one of the connection to the car light bulb. Attach a
wire from the other connection of the car light bulb to the piece to
be etched and immerse it as well into the salt water solution.
Bubbles will begin to form around the electrode and the light bulb
may or may not light. Periodicaly pull the piece to be etched from
the water and check your progress and wipe the oxides from the
surface. It would appear that there is a relationship between the
speed of the etch and the voltage by the way. I've tried the process
with as many as three car batteries in series. The higher the
voltage, the quicker the piece is etched. Using these three
batteries, I was able to etch completely through a piece of 13 guage
brass in an hour! For general etching purposes however a 10 amp
battery charger seems to be more than adequate. A second interesting
effect can be achieved with this setup as well. Move the etched
piece to the negative terminal with the etch resist still in place,
and place a copper plate on the terminal attached via the light bulb
to the positive terminal... The etched surfaces will in a very short
time be plated with a thin layer of copper! Not exactly gilding, but
still quite a cool effect!
I've not found any need to remove the oxides from the etched piece
except in the case of very deep etchings, and there a bit of strong
vinegar on a rag was enough to accomplish the task...
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:59 PM
Oops, I forgot to tell you about the etch resists I've been using.
It seems that plain, simple, cheap car autobody primer works really
well to cover the backs of pieces and large areas that I don't want
etched. you can scratch through the primer to apply your desired
pattern, but I've found that photosensitive circuitboard etch resist
works very well in this process too! So all I do is spray the area
to be etched with the etch resist and let it dry. Then I print out a
negative image of what I want etched on an overhead projector
transparency. This is then loosely taped over the piece and it is
set in the sun for a while. Then there is a developer solution that
removes the unexposed resist (follow the directions for your
particular resist/developer combination). Then I etch the piece.
This process means that I can duplicate etching patters across
multiple pieces. You can get the resist/developer for about $15 from
electronic supply houses and the overhead transparency sheets can be
gotten from any good office supply store.
[This message has been edited by Iohne (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Signo
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 01:01 PM
Tips and tricks:
When you have finished etching your piece of metal in this way, you
can put a copper piece on the other electrod, and swap the + and the
-. In this way you will fill the scratches with native copper (red)
that can be variously colored with some jewelry solutions (from blue
to brown ecc.)
IP: Logged
Wulfe
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 01:03 PM
Iohne,
When placed in the sun, does this process require a certain ambient
temp in the air? If the sun was actually out in the dead of winter,
would this alter the process?
------------------
"It is not the oath that gives me faith in the man, but the man that
gives me faith in the oath."
With Honor,
Kenwrec Wulfe
Squire to his Excellency, Baron Master Sir Galen of Bristol
The 1/2 Scottish, 1/2 Norman, English-raised Irishman of the
Early-Late Mid Period.
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 01:05 PM
Actually the resist reacts to UV. So the air temperature is not
important. It can be done with a very bright light bulb as well. I
just sit it on the brick wall outside my shop for a while, that
seemt to work...
IP: Logged
SelannDOG
New Member posted 06-24-2003 01:37 PM
How important is the Amperage of the charger? Do less amps make the
process longer, or is it inneffective below a certain level?
[This message has been edited by SelannDOG (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 02:21 PM
Voltage seems to be the key... That said however, I must admit that
I haven't experimented with different amperages that much. I've only
ever used car batteries and a 10 amp battery charger. I have read
that the process was being used in the late 1500's using those
whatchamacallit jars (early batteries - can't remember the name for
them). That would indicate that a low current would work _BUT_ I
personally can't say for sure how well.
[This message has been edited by Iohne (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Signo
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 02:38 PM
Ampere give the speed, more A more speed
Volts make the process to start, as said, 12V are enough for almost
ALL uses.
IP: Logged
ToolGoon
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 03:20 PM
As for battery chargers...
How's this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45005
or this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3418
I've been wondering about a chemical-free etching method for a while
now. My shop's a basement, bad ventilation.
------------------
Ben Schenkman
Order of Selohaar
The Phoenix Forge
[This message has been edited by ToolGoon (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 03:40 PM
I'm sure either would work, but I'd probably go with the beefier
one...
IP: Logged
Clermont
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 04:24 PM
Ohms law is V=IR. V is for volts, I is current (measured in amps),
and R is resistance. The resistance in this circuit is between the
terminals of your battery charger- the salt in the water makes it
less resistive, so more salt, the higher the current, the greater
the speed up to some limit (neither pure water or pure salt are good
conductors, but a mix of the two does OK). So your current is really
determined by the voltage supplied and the resistance of your bath.
If your charger is weak, it could be limited by the current it can
supply, in which case your voltage will drop.
Current is essentially a measure of the number of electrons flowing
through something over a time period. Many of these electrons will
travel attached to a metal ion in your etch- so yeah, higher current
means a faster etch. You get higher current by using higher voltage
or lower resistance. That's why three car bateries in series etched
so fast.
IP: Logged
Wulfe
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 05:49 PM
Would someone be able to take a pic of what this set up looks like,
please? I am looking for a good, inexpensive way to etch and this
sounds like a good method. I remember physics and chemistry from
highschool, but that was years ago and I have not applied the
knowledge since. I -think- I remember how it works...but a pic would
be excellent!
thanks!
------------------
"It is not the oath that gives me faith in the man, but the man that
gives me faith in the oath."
With Honor,
Kenwrec Wulfe
Squire to his Excellency, Baron Master Sir Galen of Bristol
The 1/2 Scottish, 1/2 Norman, English-raised Irishman of the
Early-Late Mid Period.
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 05:51 PM
Shoot me your e-mail, I'll e-mail a diagram to you...
IP: Logged
ONZ
New Member posted 06-24-2003 10:10 PM
What you are describing is reversed electroplating. The same type of
setup is used to electroplate and strip off electroplating.Check out
this site. http://www.caswellplating.com .Hit the plating kits tab
it is quite interesting.
Onz
[This message has been edited by ONZ (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
lacheadon
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 12:06 AM
The current makes it go faster. When you link the chargers up in
series, it is actually increasing the current. The voltage stays at
12V which is enough to do most things, even 9V would suffice,
however you would need a lot of them to jack up the current. I think
for copper and iron, you only need about .96 V.
Provided they had the right materials, they could probably have done
this in period although I doubt they did.
IP: Logged
verminaard
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 04:38 AM
wow, I wanna do this.
a few questions:
1. One could etch brass this way as well, yes?
2. As Brass has quite a bit of copper in it, would it have the same
reverse effect? ie, filling the etch with brass molecules.
3. Once the piece to be etched is covered in primer won't that mess
with the current when attaching the wire to it? I guess the question
is do I need to leave an unprimered area to connect?
------------------
Do not adjust your brain
It is reality that is malfunctioning
IP: Logged
ToolGoon
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 09:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Iohne:
I'm sure either would work, but I'd probably go with the beefier
one...
I think we'd all love it if you would post a diagram for all. I'd
even host it if you need someone to.
------------------
Ben Schenkman
Order of Selohaar
The Phoenix Forge
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-25-2003 10:09 AM
Yes, the primer will mess with the current flowing into the piece.
There are three ways to deal with this problem.
1.) If the piece to be etched has an end that doesn't need to be
etched, that end can remain above the water and unprotected by the
resist.
2.) A wire can be soldered to the back of the piece prior to
spraying it down with primer. Just make sure to cover the exposed
end of the wire very well with primer of the wire itself will be
eroded.
3.) A sprue or sacrificial piece can be left attached to the piece's
edge. This then reaches above the water line and is where the wire
is connected.
IP: Logged
justmagnus
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 11:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ONZ:
What you are describing is reversed electroplating. The same type
of setup is used to electroplate and strip off
electroplating.Check out this site. http://www.caswellplating.com
.Hit the plating kits tab it is quite interesting.
Onz
[This message has been edited by ONZ (edited 06-24-2003).]
The site ONZ linked has a nice tutorial on how this actually works.
Rob
IP: Logged
Jurgen
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 11:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by lacheadon:
The current makes it go faster. When you link the chargers up in
series, it is actually increasing the current. The voltage stays
at 12V which is enough to do most things, even 9V would suffice,
however you would need a lot of them to jack up the current. I
think for copper and iron, you only need about .96 V.
Provided they had the right materials, they could probably have
done this in period although I doubt they did.
Actually, if you hook them up in series, you will increase the
voltage which in turn will increase the current. The larger the
piece you want to electroetch, the more current you need. If you
load down the charger too much, the voltage would start to drop. You
could fix this by adding another charger in parallel with the first.
By doing so, approximately half the current would be drawn from each
charger.
Jurgen
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-25-2003 11:42 AM
Another thing I've noticed is that if you allow the oxides or
residues to build up on the etched surface, the voltage in the
circuit seems to drop and so does the efficiency. I normally remedy
this by pulling the piece and the electrode out of the soup and
wiping it off on a regular basis...
IP: Logged
mik
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 12:16 PM
Hello Iohne,
This thread is very interesting. Do you
(or someone else) have any pictures of the resulting pieces you made
with this method ?
MIK
[This message has been edited by mik (edited 06-26-2003).]
IP: Logged
Roissy
New Member posted 06-30-2003 03:11 PM
Just spent some time this weekend playing with this process.. .
outstanding! beats the devil out of an acid-etching process. Fairly
fast, fairly deep, very little undercutting. I was using a standard
car battery charger on the 50 amp "jump start" setting with a normal
table salt solution. Nice high-visibility etch in 1/2 hard brass in
about 2 minutes. Same depth of etch in mild steel about 1/2 again
the time. I'm going to take a poke at maximum depth of etch tonight,
and see if it'll go deep enough without undercutting to use to make
coining dies. Will post followup with results.
IP: Logged
All times are CT (US)next newest topic | next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Hop to: Select a Forum or ArchiveList of Forums:Armour - Design and
ConstructionMedieval Combat and WeaponsClassifieds / Want AdsResearch
and AuthenticityPhilosophy of ChivalryPersona in a BoxOff Topic
PostsAdministrator's ForumList of Archives:Armour Design And
Construction ArchivePattern Discussion ArchiveArmoury (and other)
ReviewsArmour Design And Construction Archive Q1-2001Research And
Authenticity Archive
Contact Us | The Armour Archive
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e
[ Chat | Patterns | Essays | Archive-FAQ | Archive Search | What's New? ]
Etching - The Armour Archive -- Discussion Boards
Armour - Design and Construction
Etching
Author Topic: Etching
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 11:47 AM
Lately I've been messing around with galvonic etching. Has anyone
else used this process? I happened to find out about it while out
cruising the net. The author inquestion used it to etch exacting
pieces out of thin spring steel.
Its most interesting attribute are that you don't need any toxic or
hazardous chemicals (just table salt and water), it works equally
well on Steel, Copper and Brass (I've even read that it works on
Stainless though I've not tried that yet), It is much more exacting
than acid etching and brings out finer details with less
undercutting.
Additionally I've found that it works well with photo resists such
as is used in circuit board manufacture which allows me to print out
the design to be etched on an overhead sheet, expose the piece to be
etched , remove the unexposed resist and etch away, producing
duplicates easily.
Have any of you tried this method other than me?
IP: Logged
SelannDOG
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:20 PM
Can you provide a link to the process or a description? I'd like to
check it out.
IP: Logged
cai_dubhghlas
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:24 PM
Sounds very interesting, could you describe the process farther? I
had etched over 300 pieces using ferric chloride, aqua regia, and
nitric on brass, aluminum, and steel... but am still searching for a
safe way to etch stainless as demand grows for it.
I have had one process like this described to me once before that
uses rock salt from walmart and water... saturated solution and then
a car battery charger to provide the electrical current for the
etching. Is this along the lines you are talking. I havent had time
to try it out yet.
Cai
Vatavia,Calontir
IP: Logged
Signo
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 12:44 PM
The process is very simple:
You make a salted bath (usually the salt of the same chemical
species involved)(but i find that NaCl is enough).
Then you need a AC/DC converter (you don't need too much power, 12V
is enough for almost all chemical elements).
Now you must link the + with a metal piece and put it in the bath.
Do the same with the -.
Now starts the magic! The electric charge make metal atoms go into
solution, and then drop themselves on the other electrod.
Now i don't remember in which direction the ions travels, but you
can do a simple trial with a piece of copper and one of metal.. if
the metal turn red, the copper is going over the metal, if the
copper turn black.. viceversa.
To use this process to etch a piece of metal, you must detach metal
particle from the scratches left over the protected surface like
with a normal acid.
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:53 PM
Materials:
Table Salt
Water
Plastic Container
Car Battery Charger
An automotive light bulb
A Scrap of metal
Etch Resist (See Notes)
Setup:
Fill the plastic container with warm water and 1TBSP of salt per
pint of water. Stir until the salt is disolved. Place a plate of
scrap metal into the salt water (the electrode). Attach this plate
to the negative terminal of the car battery charger (this connection
should be above the water line). Attach the positive terminal of the
charger to one of the connection to the car light bulb. Attach a
wire from the other connection of the car light bulb to the piece to
be etched and immerse it as well into the salt water solution.
Bubbles will begin to form around the electrode and the light bulb
may or may not light. Periodicaly pull the piece to be etched from
the water and check your progress and wipe the oxides from the
surface. It would appear that there is a relationship between the
speed of the etch and the voltage by the way. I've tried the process
with as many as three car batteries in series. The higher the
voltage, the quicker the piece is etched. Using these three
batteries, I was able to etch completely through a piece of 13 guage
brass in an hour! For general etching purposes however a 10 amp
battery charger seems to be more than adequate. A second interesting
effect can be achieved with this setup as well. Move the etched
piece to the negative terminal with the etch resist still in place,
and place a copper plate on the terminal attached via the light bulb
to the positive terminal... The etched surfaces will in a very short
time be plated with a thin layer of copper! Not exactly gilding, but
still quite a cool effect!
I've not found any need to remove the oxides from the etched piece
except in the case of very deep etchings, and there a bit of strong
vinegar on a rag was enough to accomplish the task...
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 12:59 PM
Oops, I forgot to tell you about the etch resists I've been using.
It seems that plain, simple, cheap car autobody primer works really
well to cover the backs of pieces and large areas that I don't want
etched. you can scratch through the primer to apply your desired
pattern, but I've found that photosensitive circuitboard etch resist
works very well in this process too! So all I do is spray the area
to be etched with the etch resist and let it dry. Then I print out a
negative image of what I want etched on an overhead projector
transparency. This is then loosely taped over the piece and it is
set in the sun for a while. Then there is a developer solution that
removes the unexposed resist (follow the directions for your
particular resist/developer combination). Then I etch the piece.
This process means that I can duplicate etching patters across
multiple pieces. You can get the resist/developer for about $15 from
electronic supply houses and the overhead transparency sheets can be
gotten from any good office supply store.
[This message has been edited by Iohne (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Signo
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 01:01 PM
Tips and tricks:
When you have finished etching your piece of metal in this way, you
can put a copper piece on the other electrod, and swap the + and the
-. In this way you will fill the scratches with native copper (red)
that can be variously colored with some jewelry solutions (from blue
to brown ecc.)
IP: Logged
Wulfe
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 01:03 PM
Iohne,
When placed in the sun, does this process require a certain ambient
temp in the air? If the sun was actually out in the dead of winter,
would this alter the process?
------------------
"It is not the oath that gives me faith in the man, but the man that
gives me faith in the oath."
With Honor,
Kenwrec Wulfe
Squire to his Excellency, Baron Master Sir Galen of Bristol
The 1/2 Scottish, 1/2 Norman, English-raised Irishman of the
Early-Late Mid Period.
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 01:05 PM
Actually the resist reacts to UV. So the air temperature is not
important. It can be done with a very bright light bulb as well. I
just sit it on the brick wall outside my shop for a while, that
seemt to work...
IP: Logged
SelannDOG
New Member posted 06-24-2003 01:37 PM
How important is the Amperage of the charger? Do less amps make the
process longer, or is it inneffective below a certain level?
[This message has been edited by SelannDOG (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 02:21 PM
Voltage seems to be the key... That said however, I must admit that
I haven't experimented with different amperages that much. I've only
ever used car batteries and a 10 amp battery charger. I have read
that the process was being used in the late 1500's using those
whatchamacallit jars (early batteries - can't remember the name for
them). That would indicate that a low current would work _BUT_ I
personally can't say for sure how well.
[This message has been edited by Iohne (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Signo
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 02:38 PM
Ampere give the speed, more A more speed
Volts make the process to start, as said, 12V are enough for almost
ALL uses.
IP: Logged
ToolGoon
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 03:20 PM
As for battery chargers...
How's this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45005
or this?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3418
I've been wondering about a chemical-free etching method for a while
now. My shop's a basement, bad ventilation.
------------------
Ben Schenkman
Order of Selohaar
The Phoenix Forge
[This message has been edited by ToolGoon (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 03:40 PM
I'm sure either would work, but I'd probably go with the beefier
one...
IP: Logged
Clermont
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 04:24 PM
Ohms law is V=IR. V is for volts, I is current (measured in amps),
and R is resistance. The resistance in this circuit is between the
terminals of your battery charger- the salt in the water makes it
less resistive, so more salt, the higher the current, the greater
the speed up to some limit (neither pure water or pure salt are good
conductors, but a mix of the two does OK). So your current is really
determined by the voltage supplied and the resistance of your bath.
If your charger is weak, it could be limited by the current it can
supply, in which case your voltage will drop.
Current is essentially a measure of the number of electrons flowing
through something over a time period. Many of these electrons will
travel attached to a metal ion in your etch- so yeah, higher current
means a faster etch. You get higher current by using higher voltage
or lower resistance. That's why three car bateries in series etched
so fast.
IP: Logged
Wulfe
Archive Member posted 06-24-2003 05:49 PM
Would someone be able to take a pic of what this set up looks like,
please? I am looking for a good, inexpensive way to etch and this
sounds like a good method. I remember physics and chemistry from
highschool, but that was years ago and I have not applied the
knowledge since. I -think- I remember how it works...but a pic would
be excellent!
thanks!
------------------
"It is not the oath that gives me faith in the man, but the man that
gives me faith in the oath."
With Honor,
Kenwrec Wulfe
Squire to his Excellency, Baron Master Sir Galen of Bristol
The 1/2 Scottish, 1/2 Norman, English-raised Irishman of the
Early-Late Mid Period.
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-24-2003 05:51 PM
Shoot me your e-mail, I'll e-mail a diagram to you...
IP: Logged
ONZ
New Member posted 06-24-2003 10:10 PM
What you are describing is reversed electroplating. The same type of
setup is used to electroplate and strip off electroplating.Check out
this site. http://www.caswellplating.com .Hit the plating kits tab
it is quite interesting.
Onz
[This message has been edited by ONZ (edited 06-24-2003).]
IP: Logged
lacheadon
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 12:06 AM
The current makes it go faster. When you link the chargers up in
series, it is actually increasing the current. The voltage stays at
12V which is enough to do most things, even 9V would suffice,
however you would need a lot of them to jack up the current. I think
for copper and iron, you only need about .96 V.
Provided they had the right materials, they could probably have done
this in period although I doubt they did.
IP: Logged
verminaard
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 04:38 AM
wow, I wanna do this.
a few questions:
1. One could etch brass this way as well, yes?
2. As Brass has quite a bit of copper in it, would it have the same
reverse effect? ie, filling the etch with brass molecules.
3. Once the piece to be etched is covered in primer won't that mess
with the current when attaching the wire to it? I guess the question
is do I need to leave an unprimered area to connect?
------------------
Do not adjust your brain
It is reality that is malfunctioning
IP: Logged
ToolGoon
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 09:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Iohne:
I'm sure either would work, but I'd probably go with the beefier
one...
I think we'd all love it if you would post a diagram for all. I'd
even host it if you need someone to.
------------------
Ben Schenkman
Order of Selohaar
The Phoenix Forge
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-25-2003 10:09 AM
Yes, the primer will mess with the current flowing into the piece.
There are three ways to deal with this problem.
1.) If the piece to be etched has an end that doesn't need to be
etched, that end can remain above the water and unprotected by the
resist.
2.) A wire can be soldered to the back of the piece prior to
spraying it down with primer. Just make sure to cover the exposed
end of the wire very well with primer of the wire itself will be
eroded.
3.) A sprue or sacrificial piece can be left attached to the piece's
edge. This then reaches above the water line and is where the wire
is connected.
IP: Logged
justmagnus
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 11:17 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ONZ:
What you are describing is reversed electroplating. The same type
of setup is used to electroplate and strip off
electroplating.Check out this site. http://www.caswellplating.com
.Hit the plating kits tab it is quite interesting.
Onz
[This message has been edited by ONZ (edited 06-24-2003).]
The site ONZ linked has a nice tutorial on how this actually works.
Rob
IP: Logged
Jurgen
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 11:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by lacheadon:
The current makes it go faster. When you link the chargers up in
series, it is actually increasing the current. The voltage stays
at 12V which is enough to do most things, even 9V would suffice,
however you would need a lot of them to jack up the current. I
think for copper and iron, you only need about .96 V.
Provided they had the right materials, they could probably have
done this in period although I doubt they did.
Actually, if you hook them up in series, you will increase the
voltage which in turn will increase the current. The larger the
piece you want to electroetch, the more current you need. If you
load down the charger too much, the voltage would start to drop. You
could fix this by adding another charger in parallel with the first.
By doing so, approximately half the current would be drawn from each
charger.
Jurgen
IP: Logged
Iohne
New Member posted 06-25-2003 11:42 AM
Another thing I've noticed is that if you allow the oxides or
residues to build up on the etched surface, the voltage in the
circuit seems to drop and so does the efficiency. I normally remedy
this by pulling the piece and the electrode out of the soup and
wiping it off on a regular basis...
IP: Logged
mik
Archive Member posted 06-25-2003 12:16 PM
Hello Iohne,
This thread is very interesting. Do you
(or someone else) have any pictures of the resulting pieces you made
with this method ?
MIK
[This message has been edited by mik (edited 06-26-2003).]
IP: Logged
Roissy
New Member posted 06-30-2003 03:11 PM
Just spent some time this weekend playing with this process.. .
outstanding! beats the devil out of an acid-etching process. Fairly
fast, fairly deep, very little undercutting. I was using a standard
car battery charger on the 50 amp "jump start" setting with a normal
table salt solution. Nice high-visibility etch in 1/2 hard brass in
about 2 minutes. Same depth of etch in mild steel about 1/2 again
the time. I'm going to take a poke at maximum depth of etch tonight,
and see if it'll go deep enough without undercutting to use to make
coining dies. Will post followup with results.
IP: Logged
All times are CT (US)next newest topic | next oldest topic
Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Hop to: Select a Forum or ArchiveList of Forums:Armour - Design and
ConstructionMedieval Combat and WeaponsClassifieds / Want AdsResearch
and AuthenticityPhilosophy of ChivalryPersona in a BoxOff Topic
PostsAdministrator's ForumList of Archives:Armour Design And
Construction ArchivePattern Discussion ArchiveArmoury (and other)
ReviewsArmour Design And Construction Archive Q1-2001Research And
Authenticity Archive
Contact Us | The Armour Archive
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47e
[ Chat | Patterns | Essays | Archive-FAQ | Archive Search | What's New? ]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ToolGoon:
<B>Did anyone save that thread on etching? I was going to turn it into a basics tutorial.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have an article written by Countess Lillian, instructing how a bunch of us etched our aluminum in Trimaris. Email me personally and I'll send you a copy later tonight.
~Colete
------------------
"Speak softly and carry a big stick." ~T.R.
<B>Did anyone save that thread on etching? I was going to turn it into a basics tutorial.
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have an article written by Countess Lillian, instructing how a bunch of us etched our aluminum in Trimaris. Email me personally and I'll send you a copy later tonight.
~Colete
------------------
"Speak softly and carry a big stick." ~T.R.
-
brother_fredrik
- Archive Member
- Posts: 386
- Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 1:01 am
- Location: Wilton NH
- Contact:
-
ArtemisGreen
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1235
- Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2003 1:01 am
- Location: North Charleston, SC
- Contact:
Woah!
I just went downstairs into the workshop and threw together a little etch-station. I figured I had everything somewhere, so I grabbed a bucket, some copper wire, an old battery charger, salt, lightbulb and water.
I painted a scrap piece of steel on one side, and tried a few things on the other side... popped it all in the water, plugged the batter charger in (while cringing), and a bunch of bubblin' happened. An hour later, I took it all out and lo! A good etch!
VERY cool, and very easy. I've got a couple of pictures of the scrap piece I tried, using 2 different resists. Using rust paint didnt work so well - but oddly enough, using thin sheet magnet work amazingly!
Once P-base is back up, I'll post the pics... man, 10 minutes of work, and an hour of waiting.... and about a million possibilites!
WooT!
Donovan.
I just went downstairs into the workshop and threw together a little etch-station. I figured I had everything somewhere, so I grabbed a bucket, some copper wire, an old battery charger, salt, lightbulb and water.
I painted a scrap piece of steel on one side, and tried a few things on the other side... popped it all in the water, plugged the batter charger in (while cringing), and a bunch of bubblin' happened. An hour later, I took it all out and lo! A good etch!
VERY cool, and very easy. I've got a couple of pictures of the scrap piece I tried, using 2 different resists. Using rust paint didnt work so well - but oddly enough, using thin sheet magnet work amazingly!
Once P-base is back up, I'll post the pics... man, 10 minutes of work, and an hour of waiting.... and about a million possibilites!
WooT!
Donovan.
ok, I posted 'em on my yahoo account...
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dkaardal/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.view=t
4 pics, not great... but you can see where the paint bubbled off durring the etching process. if you look at the bottom-left of the fleur de lys though, there's a small quatrafoil-ish thing. Around that, the metal is still flawless - that was an area where I used a piece of magnetic sheeting. I'm etching another piece just using the magnet - we'll see how that works.
Donovan.
P.S. Added 2 more pics - I tried another etch with just magnet. Looks MUCH better... though since I didnt really clean the steel before etching, or do anything special, the etched parts arent particularly smooth.
[This message has been edited by dkaardal (edited 08-16-2003).]
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dkaardal/lst?.dir=/Yahoo!+Photo+Album&.view=t
4 pics, not great... but you can see where the paint bubbled off durring the etching process. if you look at the bottom-left of the fleur de lys though, there's a small quatrafoil-ish thing. Around that, the metal is still flawless - that was an area where I used a piece of magnetic sheeting. I'm etching another piece just using the magnet - we'll see how that works.
Donovan.
P.S. Added 2 more pics - I tried another etch with just magnet. Looks MUCH better... though since I didnt really clean the steel before etching, or do anything special, the etched parts arent particularly smooth.
[This message has been edited by dkaardal (edited 08-16-2003).]