Song of Roland. 8th Century Frank and Basques Armour.

RedHandArmoury · Post by **RedHandArmoury** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:23 pm

Hello. My university is putting on a production of The Song of Roland, as it is traditionally done with puppets. The events take place with Charlemagne's army in 778 AD. I'm looking for references and pictures for 8th century Frankish and Basque armour around this time. Usually when this play is done with puppets, the armour used is closer to 14th century plate. This is closer to the time when it was written, but we're looking more into a historical representation. Thanks for your help.

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:40 pm

[img]http://www.redkaganate.org/flags/charly.jpg[/img]
I believe this is from a contemporary illustration of Charly's army
The armour is usualy interpreted as maile but sometimes scale

For puppets I don't think you realy need to take a stand - make it look just like the picture

Mord · Post by **Mord** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:45 pm

Norman wrote:[img]http://www.redkaganate.org/flags/charly.jpg[/img]
I believe this is from a contemporary illustration of Charly's army
The armour is usualy interpreted as maile but sometimes scale

For puppets I don't think you realy need to take a stand - make it look just like the picture

No, that illustration is probably from the Utrecht Psalter or the Psalterum Alterum (or something like that--sorry): both of these religious documents are dated to after the time of Charlemagne; The Utrecht to the 830s, and the Alterum to the late 9th Century.

Also, it is significant that these are religious works: the religious/political message may be more important than realism.

Mord.

Karen Larsdatter · Post by **Karen Larsdatter** » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:25 pm

Not that this is what you're looking for (at least, not yet) but you can find oliphants -- including one that's said to have been Roland's -- at http://larsdatter.com/oliphants.htm

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:59 am

Have a look at this thread. It has a heck of a lot of primary source information - and lots of pics! - on what Carolingian soldiers wore.

And that pic is from the Psalterium Aureum - the Golden Psalter of St Gallen. But I thought it was dated rather earlier than the late 9th century?

There's not all that much available from as early as Charlemagne's time, but I think it's reasonable to extrapolate a bit into the past without being too far off the beam. And it's all we have to go on - and certainly far better than 14th or 15th century plate!

Norman · Post by **Norman** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:12 pm

Charlemagne - according to Wiki - 2 April 742 â€“ 28 January 814

This site http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/bytype/ ... 00062.html says Psalterium Aureum is before 883
That's darned close -- darned closer than any "High Medieval" painting

Ah - and here's the full image:

and one more here http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/bytype/ ... 01/108.JPG
ALso this - from 825
http://rubens.anu.edu.au/htdocs/bytype/ ... 01/108.JPG

From Wiki -
10th cent copy of an 830 original. Charly on the left (Pipin the hunchback on the right)

mordreth · Post by **mordreth** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:07 am

The traditional Italian (sicilian) marionette theatre used plate for most of the "Orlando" (Roland) stories so it's a question of what era of the theatre they are going for
http://www.arbasicula.org/NewContent/Or ... 1Text2.htm

fun article
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9679C8B63

I went to one "opera" in little italy in the 80's to see Roland fight the evil moors - it was a good time

Song of Roland. 8th Century Frank and Basques Armour.

Song of Roland. 8th Century Frank and Basques Armour.

Re: Song of Roland. 8th Century Frank and Basques Armour.