Re-creation of a 13thC Joust.

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:53 am

What a day. I tested some steel coronels today whilst in my 13thC harness by taking the hits on my shield.

The plan is that Joram Van Essen and myself will run a re-created 13thC joust on April 25.

13thC harness, solid timber lances, steel coronels and at large (no tilt)

Testing the lances this weekend.

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:31 am

Pictures are needed

zachos · Post by **zachos** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:07 am

Seconded, we need a diary type thing on the way this unfolds.

2Shires · Post by **2Shires** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 12:41 pm

And video... video man!

Dev

white mountain armoury · Sun Mar 15, 2009 3:44 pm

I agree this sounds very cool, keep us in the loop

Token Bastard · Post by **Token Bastard** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:27 pm

Indeed!

-Ed

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:55 pm

I have some really bad video of yesterdays runs that I can upload. It's pretty crappy though.

Proper pics and video after this weekends training.

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:53 pm

Some pics of my harness as it stands today.

I still need to make the rivetted mufflers and to replace the coif with a rivetted intergral coif.

Not sure if I will get time to re-do my chausses in rivetted mail.

My barrel helm is being made at the moment, so I had to pose in my Norman helm.

I'll get Joram to post some pics of his 13thC harness as well.

My Peter Lyon sword and laced scabbard.

My war saddle.

The strapping for my shield.

Art of Jousting · Post by **Art of Jousting** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:14 pm

huath · Post by **huath** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:18 am

It was great watching you at Taupo, Joram.
Looking foward to some vids

zachos · Post by **zachos** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:00 am

Do these kits involve Coats of Plates, or are you going to be making sure every break is on the shield?

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:00 am

Joram has a CoP over his mail and I am working on my CoP.

I am pretty sure we both intend the lances to go on the shields

Thanks for posting your harness Joram.

Seriously, how damn sexy does full 13thC kit look

Lloyd · Post by **Lloyd** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:12 pm

Rod Walker wrote:What a day. I tested some steel coronels today whilst in my 13thC harness by taking the hits on my shield.

The plan is that Joram Van Essen and myself will run a re-created 13thC joust on April 25.

13thC harness, solid timber lances, steel coronels and at large (no tilt)

Testing the lances this weekend.

WAIT A SECOND!!!!

Didn't you tell me, on the phone, just a few weeks back that you were "done with jousting" and that you would be concentrating on the mounted shooting stuff??????

"Bout damn time you got your head on straight!!

Your Loving Brother-

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:14 pm

HOLY SHITE!!

THAT IS THE DREAM!!!!

>WAHHHHH<~~~!

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:25 pm

I just can't seem to escape jousting.

Constantly asked to do shows, displays, training etc.

We are being filmed by a documentary as well, so this is the incentive to do some of those things I wanted to do but never quite got around to.

The 13thC joust is one of them.

The later period solid lance/steel coronel joust has been done by the chaps in the UK, and done well. But it has been done. No point in us doing it.

What hasn't been done is the earlier period joust. It is also so much more dangerous and so much more to think about. No tilt line for a start, no tunnel to run down. You actually have to ride the horse, put it where you want it for the contact and use all your skill and experience to put yourself at that perfect angle of attack. Lots less armour as well. We all know that plate protects. We are doing this in (rivetted) mail, early coats of plates and barrel helms. Take a hit on the arm with a steel coronel and things are going to get interesting.

Working out the best way to strap and carry the shield took research. Modern shield jousters tend to strap with the hand up and push the shield right out there. This is wrong. Look at manuscripts and you can see that the shield sits back on the body and is a piece of armour in its own right.

I think with the 15thC jousters(and I include myself here) being so out there and selling themselves that we have tended to dismiss the earlier stuff as being crude,,,, it's not real jousting unless you are in 15thC harness etc etc.

Lets be honest, you could prettty much train a monkey to joust if they are running down a tunnel

(please no-one take this as a personal insult, note the smiley)

I am lucky that Joram has come on board to do this with me. I asked Joram because he is a damn good jouster, I trust him to do this with me, he has the perfect kit for it and I believe he "gets" why this needs to be done.

Klaus the Red · Post by **Klaus the Red** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 7:14 pm

Working out the best way to strap and carry the shield took research. Modern shield jousters tend to strap with the hand up and push the shield right out there. This is wrong. Look at manuscripts and you can see that the shield sits back on the body and is a piece of armour in its own right.

Rod, that's some lovely kit. How are you finding the comfort level with your arm strapped reasonably horizontally against that curved shield, as the photo shows? I'm on the verge of strapping up my new shield (for foot combat)- its proportions and curvature are similar to yours, but my instinct tells me to place my arm at more of an upward angle so it sits into the curve and flat against the wood, instead of "bridging" the curve. Does extra padding help?

Klaus

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:19 pm

It is good. I actually have more of a downward angle when I am riding with it on. I also have the other enarme set so I can gave an upward angle when fighting on foot.

Wulfgar · Post by **Wulfgar** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:12 pm

Nice Rod, shame I have so much other travel planned this year otherwose I'd try and come

2Shires · Post by **2Shires** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:57 am

Rod sayeth...

Lets be honest, you could prettty much train a monkey to joust if they are running down a tunnel (please no-one take this as a personal insult, note the smiley)

Bwahahahahahaha! I know that guy! We ALL know that guy. Don't be THAT GUY!
Rod, that made my day.

~~Dev~~

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:59 am

Rod what and how are you guys attaching your chausses to on the foot?
Mine are still sitting on the workbench because I have yet to figure our exactly how to attach them to my boots or if I should stitch them to a sole of some sort.

Lloyd · Post by **Lloyd** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:38 am

Rod Walker wrote: Take a hit on the arm with a steel coronel and things are going to get interesting.

Well, at least you'll have a brayette on this time!

I am with you there, brother, when I first started jousting, we were wearing maille, nasaled helms, and used Norman Kites (yeah, I know, that is a bit too early). I would dearly love to go back and do some serious 13th century jousting. But the docs won't let me and Lisa would kill me.

Just make sure that you shoot me some pics (and a spare coronel if ya have one....you never know...). I'll grab Katie's phone and give you a yell on Thursday night (my time).

Give Shell a huge hug from us - we miss the hell out of you two!

Art of Jousting · Post by **Art of Jousting** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:00 pm

Thaddeus wrote:Rod what and how are you guys attaching your chausses to on the foot?
Mine are still sitting on the workbench because I have yet to figure our exactly how to attach them to my boots or if I should stitch them to a sole of some sort.

My chauses are sewn direct to a leather sole, and I wear them over the hose without any shoes underneath.

Effingham · Post by **Effingham** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:13 pm

Joram, you and Rod are my two new heroes.

DAMN but you guys look sweet.

Effingham

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:09 pm

Rod Walker wrote:
I am pretty sure we both intend the lances to go on the shields

Do you need a wheelbarrow to carry your balls around in? They must be frikken huge.

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:26 pm

Thaddeus wrote:Rod what and how are you guys attaching your chausses to on the foot?
Mine are still sitting on the workbench because I have yet to figure our exactly how to attach them to my boots or if I should stitch them to a sole of some sort.

Mine are linked with rings straight to a leather sole. I was just wearing them over footed hose but lately have been wearing a thin turnshoe inside them.

Thanks all for your good wishes. I am testing the solid lances this weekend.

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:33 pm

Rod, you truly are a madman. God Love You for it, too!

(In other words, I think you're absolutely Bat Sh!t Crazy, but that's a good thing...)

My Hero. (Sigh!)

Cheers!

Gordon

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:28 pm

Aww shucks, you say the nicest things

Just posted a video of some training and testing we did this weekend with solid pine lances with aluminium coronels and some pine tips.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqbdbNE0XWs

We ran these passes in the tilt as we wanted to keep the testing controlled.

My steel coronel is back with Alex being copied (Alex made the original) so I used the aluminium coronels. These were not overly succesfull as there is too much meat in the socket and the tip of the lance needs to be filed down to much to fit. Thus weakens the tip and most (when they broke) broke just behind the socket.

The timber used is a Structral Grade Pine that I purchased as 35mmx90mmx3000. Through the table saw down to 32x32 and than through the router bench to round them.

Those that broke did break blunt.

With steel coronels these would be very usable. They hit hard, do not break every time but did break well and could be used for jousts with people that are all suitably armoured and trust each other.

The tips were the same pine processed the same way but cut to 1 metre lengths. 300mm back from the tip a 12mm hole was drilled through and another 300 mm below that. No coronels on these tips.

Inserted into the ferrule just like a balsa tip.

These hit very hard, didn't break every time but when they did break it was a hard hit and they broke at the hole and of course broke blunt.

I can see the pine tips being very usable in a competetive joust, again with jousters that are fully armoured. They take a big hit to break, hit hard 99% of the time, break blunt and there is no chance of a ferrule strike as there is 400mm of pine tip in the ferrule that will not break.

You could of course use coronels on these.

Enjoy.

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 10:53 pm

THAT'S really nifty! I'm glad that you tested these with your full plate on though, I have to admit...

It looks pretty darned neat, especially with those nice clean breaks. I think that if one were to use these in "normal" competitive (or even show) jousting I'd want some decent armour on the horses though. Too much chance of tired or less-than-highly skilled hands dropping the lance a bit too much, I'm afraid. (I guess I don't always trust my fellow players when my horse is concerned!) But this get's back to what you were saying above about jousting with Joram: you trust him.

Cheers!

Gordon

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:06 am

I actually felt pretty safe inside my early period harness as well. That shield covers from neck to pretty much knee.

I do need to make another heater shield though. One of the hits almost punched through

My shield is 15mm thick and covered in 8 layers of glue and material.

I think I will make something around the 20mm thick mark.

Some more video of my open field practice against my shock quintain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkjFVdsVxVI

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:00 pm

Coronels are done and ready to be picked up.

My new helm is finished as well but I will post pics after it is painted.

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:47 am

Rod,

Those things are pretty scary looking.

Good luck, be careful, play nice, God bless.

Mac

Rittmeister Frye · Post by **Rittmeister Frye** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:16 pm

Rod;

I hope that you're at least wearing some sort of reinforced standards under the maille over your throat. That part of the body is rather soft and squishy, and those pokey things will make a mess out of you if it somehow slides off of your shield. Or if the lance breaks properly but puts the end of it under the shield. We wouldn't want to loose our Madman of Oz that way, you know.

A full on hit to the sternum, well, that's different. That would be your own fault.

Cheers!

Gordon

Jonny Deuteronomy · Post by **Jonny Deuteronomy** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 12:32 pm

I just hope no one gets their scrotums torn to pieces over this.

Black Swan Designs · Post by **Black Swan Designs** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:56 pm

I'm a little confused- are you doing 13th C (1200's) or early 14th C. (1300's)? Is there a specific window you're shooting for period-wise?

Gwen

Rod Walker · Post by **Rod Walker** » Thu Mar 26, 2009 5:46 pm

Black Swan Designs wrote:I'm a little confused- are you doing 13th C (1200's) or early 14th C. (1300's)? Is there a specific window you're shooting for period-wise?

Gwen

I was going to do early 1300's last year but the Equine Influenza lockdown put a stop to us doing it. I sold some of that equipment off to a friend that wanted some early 14thC kit

What was left of my mid 13thC harness was sitting in a chest. I decided to drag it back out and rebuild it just for the heck of it. Of course this meant new rivetted mail, new helm and some other bits of pieces.

I still wanted to do a joust of this type and it all sort of fell into place with Joram coming over and having 13thC harness as well. Finding someone with good quality kit of the period and wanting to do this type of joust isn't easy.

My harness is still being worked on. I plan to have it finished (still with the non-rivetted chausses though) by late next week. Helm and coronels this weekend, coif and mufflers should be finished late next week. Gamboissed cuisses altered to bring them in line with 13thC cuisses done this weekend. I am also working on an early CoP.

I am aiming for C1260.

Re-creation of a 13thC Joust.

Re-creation of a 13thC Joust.

Re: Re-creation of a 13thC Joust.