Choise of shield

GvR · Post by **GvR** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:30 pm

Hello again AA.
I hope this is the proper place for this question, please correct me if I am wrong.

I have a little quandry. My persona is late period, landsknecht to be precise. While I know the landsknechts did not as a class use shields, I do find myself needing one for fighter practice and one v one combat. The problem arises that I am just short of 6' 10" ( over 2 meters) tall. When I first started back in the SCA after a 20 year absence, I chose a wankle shield, just to be different but, that was before I settled on a later period persona. I have to fight in a crouch to keep my left leg from becoming hamburger.

At first, I thought about a longer shield, but there are none in my period. So now I am thinking about a center grip, to keep the shield further away from my body and thereby give me a touch more time to protect my legs.

In the late period, my choices of shield are limited. I have seen heaters, rounds, bucklers and in a woodcut I saw some landsknechts sparing/dualing with a small pavise with a center grip.

Being that I like the unusual, I am thinking of bugging Johannes about getting more of his pavises in stock but, I'd like to ask the vast storhouse of arcane knowledge here if my line of reasoning makes any sense. Will a center grip shield, held further away from my body help me protect my freakishly long legs?

I humbly inquire,
WvK

marcus the pale · Post by **marcus the pale** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:10 pm

my 2 pennies...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCNSqeP7N2Q

Duke Hauoc Bender is using a heater shaped buckler in that vid, he is like 6'8" or so (not sure exactly how tall, but damn tall). If you want to stick to your persona, do it. I think that if you practice a style long enough, you will eventually learn how to protect your legs.

I seem to recall the pavice (sp?) being used in later period too, but I'm gonna have to look around for pics.

FWIW do what you have fun doing.

marcus

Payn · Post by **Payn** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:17 pm

Combined with learning to void your legs, and learning how to block fakes in a way that still leaves you covered, a smaller shield isn't a huge detriment (but it is still a detriment)

I am over a foot shorter than you, but have fought for a while with buckler, thereby ending up with a situation where my leg defense cannot be guaranteed by shield work. What I tend to do is pull my leg back, while counterstriking to the exposing shoulder/head.

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:09 pm

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:13 pm

I'm not 100% certain as it is post my period but I have a mental image of a woodcut with a man in Landschnect slash&poof with a sword resting on his shoulder and resting his other hand on a shield similar to this:

http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index ... cts_id=290
http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index ... cts_id=289

Both versions can take an I shaped handle and are fought center-grip. They also balance nicely if you inset the handle right and are very durable because of the compound center crease (corners can still bend).

At 6'10" you may want to talk to Windrose about a custom that is a little taller and wider just so it matches you for proportions.

Good luck!
Sean

GvR · Post by **GvR** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:25 pm

Blaine and Sean: That is indeed the woodcut I was thinking of. And I have been looking at Windroses pavise for quite some time now but, they have been out of stock for over 6 months. I guess I could PM Johannes and see if he will re-stock any time soon. Or perhaps I should attempt to work up a posterboard template for one and take it to a local tin-bender.

Richard Blackmoore · Post by **Richard Blackmoore** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:12 pm

Windrose had a number of late period, channel center shields in stock in various sizes at Gulf Wars. Maybe not the exact size or shape you want, but pavises and others. I was looking at them and asking Johannes questions. They are pretty spiffy.

Richard Blackmoore
KSCA East

marcus the pale · Post by **marcus the pale** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:52 pm

This is the exact pic I had in mind, thanks. If I was searching for a shield of this type, I think I would make one out of wood first (curved, but no channel) just to get the feel of the shape, then splurge when I was set. It looks as though two of those don't have the channel anyway, now that I look closer. Ah, well... good luck on your quest.

marcus

Blaine de Navarre wrote:

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:51 am

There's also a buckler-size version of similar shape.

[img]http://bankesideacademie.org/images/italia1.gif[/img]

GvR · Post by **GvR** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:14 am

Incidentally Blaine, if you get tired of CAID, you can move down here to a lovely little community about a half hour from here called Navarre. lol I used to live there, it's right on the Gulf.

Once again, thanks much for all your replies. If anyone has other pictures of unusual late period shields, I'd love to see them. I need to try a few styles out to find what I'll eventually stay with.

WvK

raito · Post by **raito** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:15 am

Blaine,

even though the shapes appear to be similar, the function is very different.

The 'pavise-shaped' shield has more of a central boss shape, where the boss is extended lengthwise. The 'potato-chip' shape is not flat at the edge, but turned up, so that the whole thing has a distinct, but flat, W shape.

The W shape allows one to control the point of the other's weapon when he thrusts at you, and you pick up the thrust on the shield.

The pavise shape allows (like a curve shield) the hand to be inside the shield rather than behind it, for better balance.

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:13 pm

If two people are standing up straight in front of each other, the distance from one's shoulder to another one's leg is longer than the distance from the shoulder to the head. Be careful where you put your limbs, and use this inequality to your advantage (especially since you are likely to have an arm that's much longer than most other folks).

Also, I hope you are a spearman in mellee!

-D

GvR · Post by **GvR** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:30 pm

Dmitriy wrote:If two people are standing up straight in front of each other, the distance from one's shoulder to another one's leg is longer than the distance from the shoulder to the head. Be careful where you put your limbs, and use this inequality to your advantage (especially since you are likely to have an arm that's much longer than most other folks).

Also, I hope you are a spearman in mellee!

-D

Dmitriy, Last night I built a new sword with an extra 6 inches, just for this coming change. Many people have been telling me that I should use a longer sword. I resisted their advice because my natural tendencies is to fight corp-a corp.

And in Melee I fight with a huge hammer. I cant stand spears......not violent enough. Also, with my huge hammer I can tie up 2-3 spears on the other side so that the spearmen on either side of me have free shots.

WvK