De-Rusting Mail-Now with Results!

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Ok, my search-Fu is weak and I can't find any of the threads on how to do this;

I have 16 guage round wire, riveted mail. It is zinc coated but has got rust on the front and back where I guess the zinc rubbed off and then sweat attacked it....

I understand that I can get a couple of gallons of vinigar to remove the rest of the zinc...... then what?

My neighbor happens to have a cement mixer that I can use, I know that I can put it in the mixer with sand but do you oil it first then put it in the mixer with sand? or do you put it in the mixer without the oil and then oil it when done?

What do you use to get the sand off with before oiling at the end? Is WD-40 ok to use?

regards
Thorvaldr

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Ok, my search-Fu is weak and I can't find any of the threads on how to do this;

I have 16 guage round wire, riveted mail. It is zinc coated but has got rust on the front and back where I guess the zinc rubbed off and then sweat attacked it....

I understand that I can get a couple of gallons of vinigar to remove the rest of the zinc...... then what?

My neighbor happens to have a cement mixer that I can use, I know that I can put it in the mixer with sand but do you oil it first then put it in the mixer with sand? or do you put it in the mixer without the oil and then oil it when done?

What do you use to get the sand off with before oiling at the end? Is WD-40 ok to use?

regards
Thorvaldr

Sir Thorvaldr,

I have a couple of suggestions. It may be a tad messy, but it will work like a charm.

1) get coveralls. Disposable Tyvek type work best. Get rubber gloves. Safety glasses.

Get a jar or Naval Jelly (not navel jelly as it is yukky), a big one. and a brush, and a wire brush. Also a large plastic pail or utility sink.

http://www.shorechemical.com/Section%20 ... _jelly.htm

http://paint-and-supplies.hardwarestore ... 45169.aspx

The trick is to use generously and then rinse well. Brush any stubborn areas with naval jelly and the wire brush. It will remove all rust.

ONCE YOU RINSED IT WELL SMOTHER IT WITH BALLISTOL immediately (Ballistol emulsifies with water and will allow for the water to evaporate without re-rusting

OR
again immediately, get a heat gun (like a hair dryer on steroids) and dry the heck out of it, so it does not re-rust.

THEN apply Ballistol like you own the company. (You are in Germany, it should be easy to find) http://www.ballistol-shop.de/

Since Maille is tricky because of the enormous surface exposure of the metal, it may not be a bad idea to keep a spray-can of Ballistol with a couple of rags in your armour bag, to re-treat that thing after every practice. Just make sure you wipe it dry before you wear it over any garb. Grease on a gambeson is period and ballistol surely smells less bad than rancid grease from the last meal spread over your armour.

Hope this helps!!

Rowan

[Gregoire de Lyon]

I would NOT use naval jelly to de-rust maille: It is a gel of phosphoric acid and not only poses a slight safety risk if you were to not get it all rinsed off, but will also corrode the metal of your hauberk.

Instead try just tumbling it in the cement mixer. Unless the rust is horrific, the friction will eventually rub it all off.

[Gregoire de Lyon]

Others on this forum have recommended Evapo-Rust as a good method for removing rust from maille.

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

So oil it after the tumbling only?

Thorvaldr

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Gregoire, what tumbling media would you use in the cement mixer?

Also, if the maille is mild steel and the agitator of the mixer is hardened steel, how do you avoid damage to the metal?

As for media, when I used to reload match grade 7.62 ammunition, I tumbled the brass with crushed dried corn cob and a polishing fluid. But that was softer than the actual brass (tough harder than the brass oxide).
If you use sand or there is leftover sand from a cement batch, you may be weakening the metal much much more than by judiciously using a phosphoric acid product like naval jelly. Again the trick is in careful rinsing and quick drying.

If Sir Thorvaldr has a plastic lapidary tumbler. Wait. I got it.

If you can get a plastic pail with a lid, try to get some tumbling media and ballistol, and then seal the pail. Then put it in your trunk and drive around with it for a while. Ballistol is a mild rust remover by itself, and the shaking of the car may do the tumbling more gently than a cement mixer... I knew people that washed their clothes that way on long cross country drives...


Rowan

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Rowan,

I know that alot of folks use sand ( I believe it is also a "period" method). I have some very fine quartz sand left over from doing my patio and was planning on using that. I suppose I could put the sand/maile into a plastic bucket and tumble that in the mixer but I think that the 16 guage wire is tough enough to handle the mixer especially since it will just be sliding around with the sand.

The real question is do I put whatever Oil on before the tumble as well as after (obviously I know to put it on after)?

Thorvaldr

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Rowan,

I know that alot of folks use sand ( I believe it is also a "period" method). I have some very fine quartz sand left over from doing my patio and was planning on using that. I suppose I could put the sand/maile into a plastic bucket and tumble that in the mixer but I think that the 16 guage wire is tough enough to handle the mixer especially since it will just be sliding around with the sand.

The real question is do I put whatever Oil on before the tumble as well as after (obviously I know to put it on after)?

Thorvaldr

SO the question is really what tumbling medium to use....

I have heard about using sand, the problem is that if you dont literally wash the maille with water afterwards the sand will get all over it. And if you use sand AND oil, it will never come out except washing the thing with heavy duty detergents.

Can you tumble it completely dry with the sand? it would be like light sandpaper and it will demand shaking it for a while afterwards, but it may work.

Ok, do you have nearby a shop/small factory that makes or refurbishes s-loads of machine parts?
May years ago, when I was involved in machinery sales, we would send parts to be tumbled in industrial tumblers called "parts tumbler" , the size of very large washing machines, (or the old field kitchen trailers, you know what I am talking about) Those had inside an industrial medium made specifically for steel and it polished it without messing up the steel.

It may take effort to find the shop, but this type of job would take some 10 minutes to clean up to perfection.

Maybe this helps?

R.

[Boomlaor]

I don't own any chain myself, but I wonder if you need to add any tumbling media at all. I recently read that roman re-enactors doing a long re-enactment discovered that simply wearing chain every day keeps it rust free from the links moving against eachother. A tumbler with no agitator would certainly provide more movement of each link than simply wearing it would.

[Gregoire de Lyon]

[old man voice] Waaay back in the day... [/old man voice]

I used to make my mail from coat hangers. Coat hangers come with paint on them. To get the paint off I would simply throw sections of amil around with my friends. We'd pass it back and forth like a football, kick it up and down the halls fo teh high school, etc. After an hour tops there would be no paint left on the mail.

So, long story short, I don't think any media is required. Just roll the thing. If you want it done faster or you have particularly stubborn rust, I'd second the sand suggestion. (The guy who taught me to make maille would tie his to the bumper of a truck and drive it through the desert for awhile...)

[Owyn]

One technique I've heard people use in my wintery clime is to stick it in a sandbag and toss it in your trunk. You get extra weight for icy roads, a bag of sand (standard car item up here) in case you get stuck somewhere, and your mail gets nice and shiny from the friction of sand moving around it as the car vibrates and bounces.

Just do the same thing in the summer... You lose the "fringe benefits" of the sand, but still get the mail clean.

Fine sand should just brush off from dry mail very easily. No need to wash it off. If your sand IS causing sticking issues, a minute or two with a blow-drier should work.

[Wilhelm zu Eltz-Kempenich]

TL;DR

Insert mail garment into a 5-gallon bucket. Fill bucket with fine sand, but leave enough room for the mail to tumble freely. Cover with tight lid. Push down a hill. Haul bucket back up. Push back down hill. Haul bucket back up again. Push it back down again. Repeat till satisfied.

That's still the cheapest and (almost) easiest way to do it that I know of. No chemicals, no oils, nothing that's all that messy or expensive. It just sucks hauling it back up the hill every time. I suggest using a riding lawn mower and a trailer if you don't wanna bust your back. Good luck!

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Ok, then the answer is tumble dry with sand, then get all the sand off then oil it.

great!!

thanks
Thorvaldr

[Glaukos the Athenian]

Ok, then the answer is tumble dry with sand, then get all the sand off then oil it.

great!!

thanks
Thorvaldr

We all learned something. Terrific thread.

I wonder how this was done in period, not only for maille but for plate, spangens, blades, etc.

R

[Cedric]

That's still the cheapest and (almost) easiest way to do it that I know of. No chemicals, no oils, nothing that's all that messy or expensive. It just sucks hauling it back up the hill every time. I suggest using a riding lawn mower and a trailer if you don't wanna bust your back. Good luck!

Hauling a bucket up a hill is the (almost) easiest way there is?

I use a bucket, but its filled with Evapo-Rust. Dunk the shirt in, wait 45 minutes, take it out, rinse with a hose. It's biodegradable and a bucket of it lasts pretty much forever. The batch I have I have been using for a couple years now..

Unfortunately it is fairly expensive (I think I paid ~150 including shipping), but its way easier then hauling a bucket up a hill over and over again.

Before I found Evapo-Rust I tried the bucket thing, and it was a major pain. I even rigged up a tumbler using my wife's treadmill.. and it was still more trouble then it was worth.

Evapo-Rust for the win, in my opinion.

[Schmitthenner]

post deleted

[ThorvaldR Skegglauss]

Ok, this past weekend I did it.....

I put the maille in a bucket of Vinegar over night, I then took it out the next day hung it on my armour stand in the back yard and hosed off all of the vinegar. I then shook out all the water and let it stand in the sun for about an hour. A few areas got some surface rust in that time. I then took the maille put it in a pillowcase with about 5-6 cups of fine quartz sand (left over from my patio) tied off the pillow case and deposited the bag in my neighbors cement mixer. Turned on mixer and let it spin for half an hour.

results:

Bag was a total loss

sand still in cement mixer

Maille........ CLEAN!!! (but now a duller grey steel color rather than the shiny silvery color of the zinc)

No more rust on the armour, surface rust was gone as well as the other rust that had formed on back and neck area.

Put armour back on stand and sprayed down with WD-40 and put back in basement.

So far a success.

Thorvaldr

[Kilkenny]

You probably would have had the same results leaving the sand out entirely I've cleaned my mail before by using it as a medicine ball. The links rubbing against one another are quite enough to polish off the rust, in my experience.

[dominic]

Use Evapo-Rust. Seriously; it's the best way to safely clean maille. I used to have to get it from a machine supply place, but my local Harbor Freight has started carrying it. It is awesome.