lames shapes

[wgr]

Hi all,

I'm a rookie leatherworker just getting in to armor and was wondering how much leeway there is in designing leather lames for a lamellar kit that can reasonably be accurate to period. I'll probably be focusing the kit on 8th-9th century Slav or Eastern Roman Emp, but am open on geography/chronology if it gives me more options in armor design.

From the research I've done searching on here and elsewhere, it seems most lames examples we have are of the "international" shape. I'd like to experiment with shape and lacing patterns, but at the same time there's a period purist inside of me that wants to keep the kit at least within the realm of plausible.

[Norman]

The "international" style is the be safe and don't bother looking at finds style -- as long as your chosen culture wore lamellar, you are safe with it.
Otherwise you have to search for particular finds.
Also, the "international" style's lacing is tried and true. It is based on actual observation on armour still being used before WWII
So, you know you're lacing it right and you know it will work.
If you find random plates, you may drive yourself crazy experimenting with lacing and still be wrong -- in many cases "lamellar" plates were only laced horizontaly and then attached to a backing verticaly (realy scale rather than lamellar)

If, as you say, you are just starting out, my opinion, for what its worth, is build at least one suit in international style, get comfy with how it works -- then start experimenting.

Lastly, your question seems... well, I'm unclear on it --
It seems to me --
If you want 8-9 century Slavic or Byzantine, then you need to look at the finds for 8-9 century Slavic or Byzantine.
If you want to experiment with your own designs then you don't actualy want 8-9 century Slavic or Byzantine.

Here's a tutorial for making generic (international) lamellar
http://www.redkaganate.org/martial/armo ... amlr.shtml

This page has a good batch of historical styles - but they are not described as to time and place
http://www.polarbearforge.com/lamellar.htm

Here's a Russian page with some alternative constructions (although he is focused 12-14 cent) - just scroll to the pictures if you can't read it
http://stezyapravi.ucoz.ru/publ/1-1-0-1

[wgr]

Thanks for the links, the last two in particular are very helpful. Your opinion is appreciated as well... you're probably right about sticking to international style for my first suit. I like to overcomplicate projects, bad habit of mine.

Lastly, your question seems... well, I'm unclear on it --
It seems to me --
If you want 8-9 century Slavic or Byzantine, then you need to look at the finds for 8-9 century Slavic or Byzantine.
If you want to experiment with your own designs then you don't actualy want 8-9 century Slavic or Byzantine.

Sorry for any confusion; let me clarify. I haven't 100% decided on my persona, but it will probably be 8-9th century Slavic or Byzantine. If I experiment with my own design, I want it to look close enough to period that someone could look at it and see, for example, how a 9th century Byzantine armorer could have gotten a bit creative.

[Norman]

Sorry for any confusion; let me clarify. I haven't 100% decided on my persona, but it will probably be 8-9th century Slavic or Byzantine. If I experiment with my own design, I want it to look close enough to period that someone could look at it and see, for example, how a 9th century Byzantine armorer could have gotten a bit creative.

Urm...
When Duke Cariadoc was holding a class on period storytelling he pointed out that we can not write a "period story" until we realy know what the period stories were like. So he says first you must study and tell many many period stories, then some more.. and then, maybe ..maybe you can presume to write your own period story.
Likewise here.
ANd frankly we don't have near enough finds to pretend to get into the heads of those armourers.

You can do an aproximation of 9th century design but then you must remember that your assumptions about whether it is a valid approximation are only your assumptions -- and certainly can't be held up as an example of period gear when teaching the public
-- may be quite vehemently disagreed with -- and you will certainly be chided by someone for passing off "fantasy work" for period gear.

As a perfectly on-point example -- there is a type of SCA lamellar plate which is very popular and, I presume, is thought by its creators to be a good take on lamellar design.
To me it looks like nothing but a SCAdianism -- it adds nothing and thoroughly detracts from rigs which could have been great had they used a "real" design.

Of course, all of these things are matters of degree. Someone may chide me and say that a vege-tan leather lamellar of such-n-such particular configuration was never found and therefore should not be passed off as a period design. ...or even that my plate is off from period finds by 1/8" or some such...