Heavy rapier and CT demo in Calontir

Malachiuri · Post by **Malachiuri** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:37 am

Well, the midden has hit the windmill at last.

Im happy to announce that Their Royal Majesties of Calontir have granted my request to do a heavy rapier and cut & thrust demo at Lilies war in June.

Its a great time and place to show the folks of Calontir what heavy rapier and Ct is around the world today.

Our demo will showcase Calontir heavy rapier practitioners exclusively, all home grown and all great folks who have quietly worked very hard to make this demo happen.

Notice I say demo only...

We are not expecting that heavy rapier and CT be signed into law any time soon. Probably not in the next few years, but we think it a right and proper thing to at least show Calontir what we are quietly doing.

Many of us are committed to the project. We will get out of kingdom auths and play at wars and close events regardless of the status of Calontir. If and when it ever happens, we will have a well thought out and practiced culture already established.

Thanks all for the help from all over. From now on, we must do the heavy lifting.

In service(some say at treason),

Blaine de Navarre · Post by **Blaine de Navarre** » Wed May 20, 2009 11:43 am

End times are upon us :lol:

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Wed May 20, 2009 12:24 pm

It is a good thing.

As I told a friend who had informed me about this, since HRM can pretty much win Crown when he wants, it would be hard to stop him from doing this if he wanted to. :wink:

I hope it turns out well!

Mark G. · Post by **Mark G.** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:02 pm

Rock on, Malachi! I hope it turns out GREAT!

Kevin O'Shaughnessy

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:26 pm

<s>Ohboy.</s>

Unseemly of me. My apologies!

Dafydd · Post by **Dafydd** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:38 pm

Hark! The Fourth Seal is broken!

Seriously, very best of luck with it!

Violen · Post by **Violen** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:43 pm

I hope it happens.

It would help my local recruiting.

A buddy told me that if they sanction HRM after his reign, he cant win crown for five years. That would be the only thing that could stop this, in the near future.

Sir Mihangel · Post by **Sir Mihangel** » Wed May 20, 2009 1:45 pm

I've always been curious about the CT side of things, and look forward to learning more. I hope I will be at Lillies during the demo.

Thanks for your efforts Mal, I know you and the other people looking into this are trying to to make sure everything stays safe, while still appealing to our 'Calontir Cultural Identity' (CCI).

That can't be easy...if it were, we would not be having this conversation.

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Wed May 20, 2009 2:19 pm

Violen wrote:A buddy told me that if they sanction HRM after his reign, he cant win crown for five years. That would be the only thing that could stop this, in the near future.

That depends on the BoD decision, and what happened, and why they would sanction him in the first place.

Malachiuri · Post by **Malachiuri** » Wed May 20, 2009 2:33 pm

Odd bit of Calontir trivia...

TRM are personally against Rapier but like CT. They will not sign anything into law, ever, as far as I know.

I am blessed to live in a Kingdom where our present Crown is extending the people of Calontir the opportunity to put on this demo regardless of Their person opinions.

I believe that says a lot about them.

Violen · Post by **Violen** » Wed May 20, 2009 3:42 pm

Saritor wrote:
Violen wrote:A buddy told me that if they sanction HRM after his reign, he cant win crown for five years. That would be the only thing that could stop this, in the near future.

That depends on the BoD decision, and what happened, and why they would sanction him in the first place.

Ah, thank you for clarifying that for me!

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Wed May 20, 2009 3:44 pm

Violen wrote:
A buddy told me that if they sanction HRM after his reign, he cant win crown for five years. That would be the only thing that could stop this, in the near future.

TRMs of Calontir have done nothing for or against rapier that would qualify sanctioning by the board. They have done NOTHING outside of their perview.

Blackstone · Post by **Blackstone** » Wed May 20, 2009 4:07 pm

I was wondering what on earth they would have done that could invite sanction...

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Wed May 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Blackstone wrote:I was wondering what on earth they would have done that could invite sanction...

OMG, have you seen Martino's shoes from Coronation?!

Malachiuri · Post by **Malachiuri** » Wed May 20, 2009 6:26 pm

He was specifically called out during the ceremony by the representative of the people of Calontir(part of of Coronation ritual) for not wearing pants.

We are a hard people sometimes.

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Wed May 20, 2009 7:11 pm

I wondered when we were going to see a post about this on the AA.

I'm not sure how much interest I'd personally have in playing SCA light weapons even if it were legal here. But I do want to see it happen; it can't stay 1984 in Calontir forever.

I've always felt it wasn't fair that I am prevented from exploring this aspect of the SCA just because I happen to live in a particular kingdom.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Thu May 21, 2009 8:12 am

Saritor wrote:
Blackstone wrote:I was wondering what on earth they would have done that could invite sanction...

OMG, have you seen Martino's shoes from Coronation?!

He didn't wear shoes. The hippy, he wore SANDALS... :shock:

granted they were Calligae, but sandals none the less.... :twisted:

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Thu May 21, 2009 8:43 am

Joaquin wrote:I'm not sure how much interest I'd personally have in playing SCA light weapons even if it were legal here. But I do want to see it happen; it can't stay 1984 in Calontir forever.

C&T and "standard" rapier are also two very different animals. If you haven't yet seen the videos that were posted with Kevin O'Shaunessy (whose name I think I just butchered by anglicizing, but hey...that's period!) and Logos...you should. I think C&T would more than likely appeal to you on several different levels. If you're at Lilies, you should stop by and see the C&T demo, at least.

I've always felt it wasn't fair that I am prevented from exploring this aspect of the SCA just because I happen to live in a particular kingdom.

To be fair, it took both sides to make things fall out as they have in Calontir.

But I'm glad to see that folks are slowly starting to work towards building something in that regard. Lilies should be interesting.

BdeB · Post by **BdeB** » Thu May 21, 2009 8:49 am

InsaneIrish wrote:
He didn't wear shoes. The hippy, he wore SANDALS...

granted they were Calligae, but sandals none the less....

So did Jesus. :twisted:

I love the Calontiri, but calling out the King in the middle of Coronation?!? Heads would roll.

(Yes, I know it is all a joke...)

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Thu May 21, 2009 10:07 am

Malachiuri wrote:He was specifically called out during the ceremony by the representative of the people of Calontir(part of of Coronation ritual) for not wearing pants.

We are a hard people sometimes.

Pants are for peasants.

Malachiuri · Post by **Malachiuri** » Thu May 21, 2009 3:13 pm

BdeB wrote:
InsaneIrish wrote:
He didn't wear shoes. The hippy, he wore SANDALS...

granted they were Calligae, but sandals none the less....

So did Jesus.

I love the Calontiri, but calling out the King in the middle of Coronation?!? Heads would roll.

(Yes, I know it is all a joke...)

One of the more endearing traditions in Coronation is a member of the populace speaking for all the little people of the Kingdom that the Crown serves.

Usually goes like this" You lookie here Sunny Jim, we know what you are up to so you get the shiny hat on your head and get to rulin pretty damn chop-chop you savvy me?!?!? And dont go blatherin on in any heathen lingo in the scrolls you should be passin out about now because we know made up crap when we hear it, always smells of garlic."

Translation: "Hey Mister, dont F#ck anything up for us."

Excerpt from The Concise, Yet Annoyingly Long History of Calontir

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:26 pm

Violen wrote:I hope it happens.

It would help my local recruiting.

A buddy told me that if they sanction HRM after his reign, he cant win crown for five years. That would be the only thing that could stop this, in the near future.

Just a point of reference - even were the BoD to step in and apply such a sanction, it would in no way guarantee a change in anything, beyond the specific impact upon the sanctioned individual(s).

The Corporation has very little that it can actually do to change the traditions of a Kingdom.

Violen · Post by **Violen** » Thu May 21, 2009 4:36 pm

I hope fencing comes here.

Im thinking of making a trip out of kingdom this summer to try to authorize for Cut and Trust.

Mark G. · Post by **Mark G.** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:08 pm

Come to Warriors and Warlords in Northshield in July!

Kevin O'Shaughnessy

Saritor · Post by **Saritor** » Thu May 21, 2009 9:46 pm

There's always the Outlands, too.

Baron Alcyoneus · Post by **Baron Alcyoneus** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:59 pm

So how did it go? Brewer said it seemed to have been well received.

Leopold der Wolf · Post by **Leopold der Wolf** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:24 pm

I forgot that Calontir has not yet allowed rapier yet. HRM has balls of steel!

Rapier is alot of fun and while it can't compare to the experience heavy provides for me it is however a lot of fun. I do heavy to reconnect with history and for the experience but do rapier for the sheer amount of fun and interest the fencing masters have for me.

I can see them not wanting rapier if everyone ran out using fencing foils and other non-period lame weapons but with all the incredibly accurate, cool and very period rapiers they have now it just seems silly to ban it.

For those Calontir folks who hate the idea, imagine the fame and glory your Kingdom will have when you train up your first badass bunch of duelists and send them out to win known-world competitions and battles.

Blackstone · Post by **Blackstone** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:25 pm

Speaking strictly as an observer, it did seem to be well recieved. Somewhere over 100 people were watching, including Her Majesty Calontir, His Majesty Calontir and numerous landed nobles. Sir Malachai explained the blades, the changes in the last 15 years, blow calling and target areas. This was followed by Sir Malachai, Sir Toen, Baron Alejandro and the several other rapier fighters showed various styles of rapier combat. I know there were rapier fighters from at least 3 Kingdoms in the audience, but none of us were 'helping'. This was purely from Calontir's citizens and about Calontir.

Master Aeron Harper, Earl Brian, Baron Alejandro and another gentleman from Calontir whose's name I have forgotten (for which I apologise ) then demonstrated Cut and Thrust, including single sword, sword and buckler and longsword (based on the play of Fiore). This was warmly recieved, I would say. In fact, I could see people drooling, I think. :)

There were a lot of questions, but most of them seemed interested, rather than combative.

And the sky did not fall.

-- Charles

Leopold der Wolf · Post by **Leopold der Wolf** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:28 pm

/cheers.

Jon Barber · Post by **Jon Barber** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:06 pm

Blackstone wrote:Master Aeron Harper, Earl Brian, Baron Alejandro and another gentleman from Calontir whose's name I have forgotten (for which I apologise ) then demonstrated Cut and Thrust, including single sword, sword and buckler and longsword (based on the play of Fiore). This was warmly recieved, I would say. In fact, I could see people drooling, I think.

There were a lot of questions, but most of them seemed interested, rather than combative.

I talked to Aeron about this yesterday and he expressed the same sentiment. Many questions, mostly informational in nature and those not positive were neutral, not negative or combative. Wish I had been able to make this (sorry, Charles).

Baron Alejandro · Post by **Baron Alejandro** » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:57 pm

It was wicked fun. I am very privileged to be in this Kingdom.

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:57 am

Damn, I wish I could have been there! Moreover, I wish I had known that Alejandro would have been able to make it so I could have finished his helm in time!

Malachiuri · Post by **Malachiuri** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 5:03 pm

Lilies Demo went wonderfully! As was stated above, this demo was by Calontir, for Calontir.

The whole thing came across as more of a fun discussion than a demo. People felt completely free to ask all sorts of questions at any point. We really appreciated the reception we got.

I spent most of the day completely stressing out, mostly trying to decide if I was going to scream, throw up, or both at the same time. To have the crowd chanting for more as we ended was spectacular!

A special thanks to all who took the field and worked behind the scenes. I know I am forgetting some, and for that I blame Iamys since he was acting as my brain that day. I certainly wasnt in control of it

Sir Toen Fitzwilliam

Master Iamys Makillewray

Baron Alejandro

Gunther Tode

Master Phillippe de Lyon

Michael de Lundie

Baron Ravas Janos

Rolf Hobart

And again, thanks so much for the kind folks who showed us the Cut and Thrust fun

Earl Sir Brian Mac Brand

Master Aeron Harper

brewer · Post by **brewer** » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:33 pm

Baron Alcyoneus wrote:So how did it go? Brewer said it seemed to have been well received.

For my part, that's true. I attended purely from an interest in observing the Calontiri people and their reactions. Having heard nothing but horror stories about Calontir's reaction to rapier, I was curious if that was true in reality.

I'm pleased to say the stories are at the very least vast overestimations.

From eavesdropping around our little island of 16th-century poofiness, I heard nothing but stuff along the lines of, "That's pretty frickin' cool." The questions asked during the demo were polite and pointed, and the answers equally polite and informative.

Moreover, later that evening, I was hanging with Sir Brian and the blokes of Darkwood - it's good to be their next-door merchant neighbor, if a little tempting to work too many barter deals :lol:

- and several people stopped by to thank Sir Brian for his participation in the demo and Darkwood's attendance as a source of gear. The general sentiment I got was "It's really cool. I don't think it's for me, but it's really cool."

From the above indicators, I can only conclude that heavy rapier and especially C&T will be accepted in Calontir, albeit eventually. No one burst into flames, no one sprouted fangs and throttled the demo fighters, no one had a blade snap and skewer another, and no tornado touched down; thus, the hand of the Almighty seemed at least ambivalent to the concept. :lol:

I hope it becomes popular. I do not think, due to Calontir's kingdom culture, that it will ever be as popular as rattan combat. The Art of 'Fence has a lot to offer the people and culture of Calontir, and the people of Calontir appear to have accepted that.

Of course, that's based on an afternoon and evening's worth of observation. Others may report differently. I have no special insight into Calontir. Perhaps I'm also reporting with the bias of really wanting Calontir to accept these new combat arts; that's undoubtedly coloring my analysis to a certain extent.

Cheers!

Bob

sha-ul · Post by **sha-ul** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:16 am

could someone give an account on what the oral presentation at this demo was?