halfswording

blackbow · Post by **blackbow** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:59 am

ok...the last thing I heard about halfswording here in Atlantia was that you could do it but you couldn't strike with it at all?

Please, somebody gimme the straight dope, preferably with citation. If you can't swing while holding in a halfsword grip there's no reason to ever hold it that way.

Yes, I know about the part where you can't hit with the blade between your hands.

JB

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:13 pm

blackbow wrote:If you can't swing while holding in a halfsword grip there's no reason to ever hold it that way.

JB

Really? Why do you feel that this is true? I can't think of any fechtbooks that show striking with the edged portion while using a half-sword grip and they seemed to use it just fine in period.

As I understand the rules there is nothing in the Society minimum rules that actually prohibits it so long as it meets:

V. ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF BLOWS
C. An effective blow will be defined as a blow which was delivered with effective technique for the particular type of weapon used, properly oriented, and struck with sufficient force.

-and-

E. All fighters are expected to take into account the nature of the weapon being used by their opponent and the location of the point of impact of that weapon when judging the outcome of a blow delivered. A blow that strikes with sufficient force and proper orientation shall be considered effective, regardless of what it hits prior to striking the combatant.

So if you can get sufficient force and strike with the edge I would consider that an effective technique... but I spend most of my time trusting with the half-sword.

Atlantia could have specific rules or customs disallowing it though.

Still, I'm curious why you think there is never any reason why you would want increased leverage and tip control while fighting from close quarters... especially since you know your opponent can't grapple with you as a counter. That seems to favor the strong inside thrust game to me.

Sean

jester · Post by **jester** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:45 pm

blackbow wrote:ok...the last thing I heard about halfswording here in Atlantia was that you could do it but you couldn't strike with it at all?

Please, somebody gimme the straight dope, preferably with citation. If you can't swing while holding in a halfsword grip there's no reason to ever hold it that way.

Yes, I know about the part where you can't hit with the blade between your hands.

JB

Well the rules are online and a quick check of the conventions of combat doesn't show anything that prohibits grabbing the blade of your own weapon or striking with the blade of your weapon (even the portion between your hands). http://marshal.atlantia.sca.org/rules.php Atlantia seems to go with Society standard in this particular case.

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:29 am

When I asked a marshal I was told not to try it until the rules specifically state that I can do it.

jester · Post by **jester** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 8:25 am

Vladimir wrote:When I asked a marshal I was told not to try it until the rules specifically state that I can do it.

If the rules don't forbid it then, consistent with safety, it is permitted. You should move up the chain and ask a more senior marshal.

Leopold der Wolf · Post by **Leopold der Wolf** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 9:57 am

Our Marshal said it's illegal as well. One way to get around the rule I believe is to make your second handle above the hilt quite long so you can grab the sword in a half sword position.

Or you can do a blunt edged part higher up on the blade. It'll look kinda silly but you can explain you're doing it so you can use period techniques.

Sigifrith Hauknefr · Post by **Sigifrith Hauknefr** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:33 pm

Does someone want to explain how half swording with a greatsword is different from an unpadded polearm with quillions and a long blade?

hrolf · Post by **hrolf** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:38 pm

Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:Does someone want to explain how half swording with a greatsword is different from an unpadded polearm with quillions and a long blade?

by society rules, the construction is synonymous. The actual techniques should differ, though - my understanding is that halfswording is primarily a closework thrusting technique.

Leopold der Wolf · Post by **Leopold der Wolf** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:32 pm

Sigifrith Hauknefr wrote:Does someone want to explain how half swording with a greatsword is different from an unpadded polearm with quillions and a long blade?

Because you can turn it back into a great sword after.

I can see how that'd cause some issues though..Since why use a polearm (besides looks, historical etc) when a great sword can do everything then.

Sigifrith Hauknefr · Post by **Sigifrith Hauknefr** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:29 pm

This is my whole point. Why even make the distinction from an SCA "weapons construction" rules point of view?

How about:
Two handed weapons:

o Must be <= 7.5' in length, maximum weight (whatever it is now),
o May have a padded or constructed "striking" head that does not pose an injury risk to the guy being hit (you can sub construction guidlines if you like).
o May have a single blade, must have a haft or handle region or regions which
a) cannot be used to strike an oppponent.
b) must be used to hold the weapon*
o May have a thrusting tip on either end**, may be low profile, must be constructed of 1.5" of resilient material such as foam or sponge rubber.
o May have quillions or other hand/blocking protection devices. Weapon must be 1.25" minimum cross section throughout, except for handle regions that are covered by quillions or tsuba. Don't hit people with quillons. May have a counterweight/pommel (but not if the butt is used for thrusting)
o You may not strike with the "butt" (handle) end. You may thrust with it if it has a thrusting tip.

* I can see that this might be a regression for "halfsworders" who want a blade all the way to the quilliions, and be able to hold and strike with it. I could remove this rule, I guess we would have to replace it with a minimum haft/handle region (12"?)
EDIT: Maybe the rule to handle this is to make a 5' maximum blade on any weapon.

** I am not a fan of "butt spikes" or "smashy pommels" on greatswords, but whatever. I guess they are not unbalacing the game.

Last rule: Don't break anyone one.

Yes, this does allow "glaives" with quillons and 7.5' greatswords. You go, Conan!

mackenzie · Post by **mackenzie** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:46 am

Build yourself a sword that looks like one of these two and scare your local Marshals to death in a period way. ( from the Getty Fior di Battaglia early 15th C )

Payn · Post by **Payn** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:41 am

mackenzie wrote:Build yourself a sword that looks like one of these two and scare your local Marshals to death in a period way. ( from the Getty Fior di Battaglia early 15th C )

Hey Mac, got any pics of the tallhoffer... let's call it "Fullswording"... uh... "blade"?

halfswording

halfswording

Re: halfswording

Re: halfswording