The Armour Archive

Jonathan Dean

Don't forget in terms of cavalry that the stirrup doesn't come to Europe until something like the 8th century so early spear use on horse was not the impact based use that later lances have. It was probably used more as a stabbing implement and needs balance to wield. This idea has been challenged ...

Jonathan Dean

I guess I should add the Rule of the Templars to the aketons, pourpoints, and gambesons thread! Thanks for spotting rule 557 which calls the jupel d'armer a species of armeure . This is a pretty early reference to a fighting knife ( couteau d'armes , contrasted with a couteau de pain tailler "knife...

Jonathan Dean

I was thinking about Willehalm von Orleans , because the phrasing seemed similar to some of James I's descriptions of arming in a hurry so that he only had a "perpunt" and iron cap, but the possibility of the "spallier" being padding threw me. There's been some discussion about the possibility of ea...

Jonathan Dean

I think the question is whether 14th century definitions can be applied backwards to the 13th. I will say, though, that even with the Bolognese armed societies having some textile armour, the possible or probable lack of it has me completely rethinking infantry armour in Italy. This might be worthy ...

Jonathan Dean

Ah, that explains that. My Latin definitely needs work (or, rather, needs to be learned rather than acquired ad hoc), so I guess I'll have to make sure that's the first subject I do next year. Interestingly, here's what seems to be a more general law for Bologna , as opposed to one or the other of t...

Jonathan Dean

Just thinking on what the thorax might be, and the Florentine militia regulations c.1260 may be useful in interpreting it: Item, quilibet pedes civitatis Florentie teneatur et debeat portare et habere in presenti exercitu panzeriam sive corictum cum manicis ferrois, aut manicos ferreos cum coraczini...

Jonathan Dean

If you want authenticity, it's hard to beat Will Sherman's arrows, even if they are a bit pricey. His authentic arrows are all based off original shafts and arrowheads that he's handled and examined himself.

Jonathan Dean

It's probably intended to be an Archaic type of armour, but probably one drawn after old drawings or descriptions rather than solid knowledge. If you look at the illuminations for f.66v, f.73v and f.74v the ordinary infantry are all in mail and fairly period correct helmets, whereas the "heroic" fig...

Jonathan Dean

I'll send you the paper the text is in, since it contains a selection of other statutes/merchant writings on weights and measures. Interestingly, there's one statute of Edward I that legally defines the "ulna" as 3 feet, and Zupko dates it to c.1272. I kind of assume that this wasn't universal by th...

Jonathan Dean

As the title to the subsection in the original MS. says, the discussion is about ells, i.e. what a hundred ells of linen or canvas equates to. I think you're right that I'm reading it wrong, and it sounds like 120 ells of other cloth is equal to 100 ells of other cloth, which is either 43" or 54", d...

Jonathan Dean

I don't know how much help this will be, but here's a brief note on canvas measurements from a late 16th/early 17th century work: Nottes upone the ells of canvas and lynen clothe, upon the hundrid ells. The hundred of canvas and of lynnen clothe is and contenith 120 to the hundrid. ( Select Tracts a...

Jonathan Dean

Very interesting find, thanks! It would be good to know how "fine" linen was defined. The two linen linings for 14th century brigandine from Tyrol castle - which was faced with samnite - were 18/18 threads/cm and 19/15 threads/cm, which is less fine than the linen from the Sleeve of St. Martin and o...

Jonathan Dean

*insert mandatory Dan Howard dense quilting comment here* I'm not convinced that modern textiles would be low-quality by the standards of the cloth used in lower grade textile armour. While there might be a loss in peformance caused by using shorter fibers in modern linen vs the longer fibers in med...

Jonathan Dean

I agree with Sean that the aventail was probably a brim. The treatise mentions that the aventail should be "in the form and manner of a hat", which makes me think of a brim.

Jonathan Dean

I think that just about confirms it. Good find!

Jonathan Dean

This is amazing work, Sean!

Jonathan Dean

The rest of the text quoted with it mention semi-precious stones and purple cloth, so maybe priestly vestments from Exodus? It's a shame the book hasn't been digitised yet, although I'm not sure my paleography skills would have been up to it in any case.

And no problem!

Jonathan Dean

From the context, coutil definitely seems to mean "quilted", at least in Anglo-Norman. In modern French, though, it seems to refer to canvas or thick cloth, and there's also the 1420 example from the DMF that also seems to indicate this. Is it possible that what was originally "quilting" came to mea...

Jonathan Dean

I don't think the density of weaving was a problem in Jones' test, as it was 21 threads a cm, which is fairly typical of the high end linen fragments I've seen, which vary from 19 to 30 threads a cm. Most Icelandic and Lithuanian finds that I've seen have mostly been 10-15 threads a cm, which is not...

Jonathan Dean

Hm, maybe I spoke too soon : "Jacques Hangest huissier d armes du roi et garde du château de Corbeil reçoit 8 arbalètes haussepied, 2 haussepieds, 8 pavois, 2 caisses de carreaux" The haussepied might indeed be some sort of lever for a large crossbow. Edit: I checked Jean Liebel, and he presents the...

Jonathan Dean

Looking through Documents relatifs au Clos des galées de Rouen et aux armées de mer du roi de France de 1293 à 1418, Tome 2 , there are a few interesting passages: p12 has "200 crossbows, 200 baldrics, four [windless crossbows]?, four cases of bolts for the [windlass crossbows]?" ("200 arbalestes, 2...

Jonathan Dean

Le Jouvencel was translated last year, and I just got my hands on a copy and came across a passage that reminded me of this project: Anyone who wishes to achieve success should beware of undertaking too much too soon; rather he should proceed by stages and increase his activities slowly – as did th...

Jonathan Dean

Dammit! I had to buy my copy new, and now I wish I'd waited a few years xD

Jonathan Dean

Hey Sean, great find!

I wouldn't be surprised if Patterson had translated from the original Arabic, although he doesn't specify, as he could read it and translated on text on Middle Eastern archery.

Jonathan Dean

I'm just going to pretend I didn't forget about the Huelgas Apocalypse. I don't think I've seen the Morgan Collection's full resolution scan, though, and the guard on the left does appear to be wearing a gambeson with detachable sleeves and quilting that goes around the arm, which is a useful bit of...

Jonathan Dean

Whoops, I missed this thread earlier! Ermmm... 1.2mm mild steel plates. AKA 18 Ga mild. These are about 2/3 to 1/2 the toughness of the thinnest steel [/i] plates used in 15th century armour. Perhaps we should send a sample of the brigandines that Craig Nadler makes (1mm 4130 tempered to low-mid 40'...

Jonathan Dean

Have you found many possibilities? I think the only twos strong candidates I've found so far have been Vezelay and the San Verona baptismal font.

You've been doing a really spectacular job with this! I look forward to reading the article when it gets published.

Jonathan Dean

re: loanwords, I've recently been thinking on this in relation to the Vezelay Tympanum. This is the only semi-decent picture of the figure in question, and seems to show a distinct armhole that the sleeve is connected to, much as some have suggested the Morgan Bible gambesons were constructed. Unfor...

Jonathan Dean

I really like the map - it makes it easy to visualise the approximate transition zones in linguistic terms, and I think the Romanesque design is really fun.

Jonathan Dean

I admit, it's only been very recently that I've picked up on what Claude was doing there. Unfortunately, there's just not enough surviving armour to avoid relying heavily on artwork and artistic sources.

Jonathan Dean

Benoit does mention the chapel de fer with the spelling chaple . It looks like we are seeing this whole technological system (hauberks and haubergeons, aketons / pourpoints / gambesons, separate collars, cuiries, helms and iron caps, crossbows) in northern France by the 1170s. The really interestin...

Jonathan Dean

This reminds me of a discussion I had with Evan Schultheis a few days ago. The thorocomachus mentioned in De Rebus Bellicis is said to be made from thick fulled cloth or felt ("quod de coactili"), and the earliest copy of the text (admittedly from the 15th century!) shows it as a tunic, while Graham...

Jonathan Dean

Michael A. Newth apparently has a full translation (The song of Aliscans), so I'll try and get that on ILL.

Edit: The library is open but not doing ILLs yet. I'll check again next week.

Jonathan Dean

I may be able to get Aliscans on ILL or, if you have the line numbers, I might be able to get a page scanned if the universities aren't willing to let the public sully their books.

Jonathan Dean

I don't think I have heard that word before, and I don't read any Iberian languages. At this point, I will only add new texts to the list if someone gives me chapter and verse (and, as always, I find the source convincing and noteworthy). I can't afford to do any more hunting for things which might...

Re: Spear Fighting

Re: The Panzer Problem

Re: The Panzer Problem

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Anybody make arrows?

Re: Felt Armour

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: A&A Daggers vs. Jack Test

Re: The Chapel de Montauban

Re: Arbalest à Tillolles

Re: A Short Round Cloak with Embroidered Collar

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: Arbalest à Tillolles

Re: Arbalest à Tillolles

Re: A Jack for Francs-Archers by Charles Lin

Re: Arbalest à Tillolles

Re: Arbalest à Tillolles

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Tod's Brigandine Test

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-1350

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13

Re: Written Sources for Gambesons/Aketons/Pourpoints 1100-13