Brig of Charles VI Cad, Chef

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 1:47 pm

Can anyone date this brigandine? I don't think that it is contemporaneous with Charlie 6. I would also wonder about it's construction. It seems to violate the standard of 7-9 columns of plates that mid 15th c brigs show. There are at least 8 columns on the front and that would seem to place it in the late 15th c to 16th c styles. Or did CoPs get small plates then grow back up? Edge and Paddock state that the first brigs show up in 1368 in Italy. Any idea of their construction and how they differ from CoPs of the time? Comments anyone? Cad, does the Chartres book discuss the brig in academic terms?

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Captain Jamie-a marvellous valorous gentleman, that is certain
Failure is the price of knowledge
Changing the face of warfare one weapon at a time

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Wed Dec 31, 2003 11:46 pm

Chuck Davis · Post by **Chuck Davis** » Thu Jan 01, 2004 11:10 am

Jamie, I don't think it is contemporary with Charles VI. I still don't have a full translation to go with it either.

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Fri Jan 02, 2004 4:07 pm

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 11:47 pm

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:36 pm

A roonie! Anyboby want to hazard a guess? Class? Class?

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 7:49 pm

OK, I'll guess 16th cent, late 15th cent at the earliest. The arrangement of the plates and the rivet pattern reminds me of a late 15th or early 16th cent italian brig at the Met in NY. The closure method on that brig is rather strange however and unlike anything I have seen before in pictures or illustrations.

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 10:29 am

Thanks Lorenzo. I am still wondering why it is associated with Charles VI though. Anybody have any ideas on the (presumed by me) transition from CoP to brigandine? Evolutionary devolopment or separate lineage?

My purpose is to understand the CoP and Brig in the last part of the 14c. and the first half of the 15th. Most of the pieces in evidence are from the second half of the 15th century. Any thoughts?

Captain Jamie

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:11 am

The standard texts with data on brigs are The development of the coat of plates by Micheal Lacey, a masters thesis published in the compleat anachronist #69 and On the remains of a jack of plates excavated from Beeston Castle in Chesire, Journal of the Arms and Armour Society Vol XIII, no 2 Sept 1989. Other than these its difficult to find much.

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 11:17 am

One more thing, it could be that the Chartes armor is for a child. Consequently it might not have the same features as a contemperaneous adult armor. The closest thing to a brig tranistioning from a coat of plates to a brig that I know of is the one from Chalcis with the nearly square plates. A diagram can be found in the Compleat Anachronist article. There are also some pics in Foulkes article on Chalcis and of a reconstruction in an article by Stephen Grancsay in the collection of his essays from the MET bulletin. Hope this helps in your research.

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Wed Jan 07, 2004 5:26 pm

And another source, 14th cent coat of plates with some brig characteristics
http://www.geocities.com/kaganate/tana.html