OK i am new to SCA. Truthfully i just went to my first meeting the other night. The variation of armor was astonding. from steel plate to a guy wearing what i think was a trash can (not sure)
So here is the question. I have faught in many types of armed and unarmed combat. I dont want to be the guy in the trash can but i am not sure that metal plate will be mobile enough.
i am on a limited budget and want to get started quickly. I know this will probably start a huge argument.
So lets hear all you thoughts and theroys on what to go with.
getting started
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ArtemisGreen
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Are you wanting to make your own armour, or do you want to buy some inexpensive manufactured armour?
Metal plate can be mobile enough, if you do it right. It's hard to do, but it can be done. It will also save you many bruises.
Plastic is ugly as dirt, cheap as sin. (As told by Jt) However, it's quite light and relatively easy to make.
Leather armour looks better than plastic armour, but does provide significantly less protection than metal plate. I've noticed the difference between my friend's leather arm harness and my metal one that I'm currently working on. It hurts so much more, and after a while, the leather will soften up to that of a worn out boot, which will inherently make it hurt worse.
Coats of plates offer good protection, but you'd better be up for one long riveting job. Ask mr Craig Nadler about that.
Maille is nothing for absorbing or dispersing the shock of a rattan blow. I've tested it, it hurts. Even when wearing padding. I certainly wouldn't fight in it. Then again I wouldn't fight in plastic or leather armour...
You're required to have a helm made of a minimum of 16 ga steel, so you can't go straying off there. It has to be made out of steel. You're also required to have knee and elbow cops, a gorget (throat protector), groin protection (a sports cup), sturdy footwear, some kind of kidney and shortrib protection, and gauntlets made from rigid plates that disperse the shock of the blow to the haft of your weapon. See here for the rules and regulations regarding armoured combat.
Guys, if I'm forgetting something or got something wrong, please slap me down.
Artemis
Metal plate can be mobile enough, if you do it right. It's hard to do, but it can be done. It will also save you many bruises.
Plastic is ugly as dirt, cheap as sin. (As told by Jt) However, it's quite light and relatively easy to make.
Leather armour looks better than plastic armour, but does provide significantly less protection than metal plate. I've noticed the difference between my friend's leather arm harness and my metal one that I'm currently working on. It hurts so much more, and after a while, the leather will soften up to that of a worn out boot, which will inherently make it hurt worse.
Coats of plates offer good protection, but you'd better be up for one long riveting job. Ask mr Craig Nadler about that.
Maille is nothing for absorbing or dispersing the shock of a rattan blow. I've tested it, it hurts. Even when wearing padding. I certainly wouldn't fight in it. Then again I wouldn't fight in plastic or leather armour...
You're required to have a helm made of a minimum of 16 ga steel, so you can't go straying off there. It has to be made out of steel. You're also required to have knee and elbow cops, a gorget (throat protector), groin protection (a sports cup), sturdy footwear, some kind of kidney and shortrib protection, and gauntlets made from rigid plates that disperse the shock of the blow to the haft of your weapon. See here for the rules and regulations regarding armoured combat.
Guys, if I'm forgetting something or got something wrong, please slap me down.
Artemis
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Sean Powell
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- Location: Holden MA
Basic SCA starter kit:
Cage face basinet.
Brigandine gorget.
Wisby coat of plates.
Steel elbows with splinted vambraces.
Steel knees with Splinted uppers.
Leather halfgauntlet (or steel at your choice)
Cage basket hitled sword,
Alluminum shield with cage hand protection.
This is about SCA equivilent to 14th century which is to say a mismash of periods near the 14th. The cage-baskets obviously arn't period and while cage face basinets did exist they wern't common, not nearly as common as they are in the SCA but they do offer maximum visibility, protection and comfort for a minimum price.
All of this equipment is available from a number of different suppliers and you can search around for the best prices. Its also fairly easy to build most of it yourself if you are so inclined (O.K. the welding takes a bit more but thats only helm and baskets)
Ideally, see if there is someone in your local group you can borrow gear from occasionally. You will learn the most about what YOU want to fight in by doing in.
Without a better idea of budget, persona, fighting intensity, weather conditions fought in, physical build, style of combat, regularity of practice and a host of other things you have left us with WAY too much leeway to answer this question. Its like asking: "What is the best land vehicle I can buy?" It covers everything from stake-boards through 18-wheelers.
Happy fighting,
Sean
Cage face basinet.
Brigandine gorget.
Wisby coat of plates.
Steel elbows with splinted vambraces.
Steel knees with Splinted uppers.
Leather halfgauntlet (or steel at your choice)
Cage basket hitled sword,
Alluminum shield with cage hand protection.
This is about SCA equivilent to 14th century which is to say a mismash of periods near the 14th. The cage-baskets obviously arn't period and while cage face basinets did exist they wern't common, not nearly as common as they are in the SCA but they do offer maximum visibility, protection and comfort for a minimum price.
All of this equipment is available from a number of different suppliers and you can search around for the best prices. Its also fairly easy to build most of it yourself if you are so inclined (O.K. the welding takes a bit more but thats only helm and baskets)
Ideally, see if there is someone in your local group you can borrow gear from occasionally. You will learn the most about what YOU want to fight in by doing in.
Without a better idea of budget, persona, fighting intensity, weather conditions fought in, physical build, style of combat, regularity of practice and a host of other things you have left us with WAY too much leeway to answer this question. Its like asking: "What is the best land vehicle I can buy?" It covers everything from stake-boards through 18-wheelers.
Happy fighting,
Sean
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neilhoward
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- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:01 am
Thanks for all the info.
I am interestead in creating it and am pretty good with my hands. i have made chain before and am not interested in doing so again. I have started to practice and train 4 times a week twice with my troop and twce on my own i have worked out a pretty rigorous work out. As far as style i am not sure. I know my current troop is somewhat limited is that area. If anyone knows of a good resource for training tips and such it would be a great help.
as far as build i am 6' tall and a sturdy frame weighing in at about 190
as for funds father of 5 and husband so trying not to wipe out the kids college fund but dont mind spending a few hundred dollars on toys now and then.
I have trained before with dual swords and was wondering if that is alloughed in SCA?
[This message has been edited by neilhoward (edited 01-13-2004).]
I am interestead in creating it and am pretty good with my hands. i have made chain before and am not interested in doing so again. I have started to practice and train 4 times a week twice with my troop and twce on my own i have worked out a pretty rigorous work out. As far as style i am not sure. I know my current troop is somewhat limited is that area. If anyone knows of a good resource for training tips and such it would be a great help.
as far as build i am 6' tall and a sturdy frame weighing in at about 190
as for funds father of 5 and husband so trying not to wipe out the kids college fund but dont mind spending a few hundred dollars on toys now and then.
I have trained before with dual swords and was wondering if that is alloughed in SCA?
[This message has been edited by neilhoward (edited 01-13-2004).]
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horsefriend
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neilhoward
- New Member
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- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:01 am
Neil,
Viking Leather crafts has a give-away on scrap leather that you can use to make a lamellar suit, or a scale suit.
Here is the thread talking about it:
http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005374.html
I would advise making a lamellar suit yourself (fun, and not THAT hard), ordering a helm from a good but inexpensive armourer...
...but first I would suggest hitting the library. Armour from the Battle of Wisby by Brent Thordeman is excellent, and you can get it on interlibrary loan. Same case for Brian Price's Armour of the 14th Century (I think I mucked up the title...)
You can get on the field.
I grew up in Northern California...Los Altos, CA.
If you need a pair of articulated arms, I have a full set I made several years ago. They are oil-quenched mild steel. If you post an address I can mail them out to you in April (or I can beg my wife to mail them out to you...she likes begging
).
I've got a Great Helm but it's WAY to big for anyone to wear. It's 14 pounds, and has never gotten a dent...and I used it as my pell firing off shots every day!! Dukes, Barons and Knights have fired off shots at it...still no dents or pain for the wearer. If you are desperate, and you have a HUGE head in believe in TONS of padding I can ask her to mail it out to you too.
You would have to reimburse her for shipping.
I'll post pictures in a minute.
Pictures of me fighting in my Great Helm are at photos.yahoo.com/miaullis. I've never felt a twinge in that thing, but it IS bulky!
-Aaron
[This message has been edited by Aaron (edited 01-14-2004).]
Viking Leather crafts has a give-away on scrap leather that you can use to make a lamellar suit, or a scale suit.
Here is the thread talking about it:
http://www.armourarchive.org/ubb/Forum3/HTML/005374.html
I would advise making a lamellar suit yourself (fun, and not THAT hard), ordering a helm from a good but inexpensive armourer...
...but first I would suggest hitting the library. Armour from the Battle of Wisby by Brent Thordeman is excellent, and you can get it on interlibrary loan. Same case for Brian Price's Armour of the 14th Century (I think I mucked up the title...)
You can get on the field.
I grew up in Northern California...Los Altos, CA.
If you need a pair of articulated arms, I have a full set I made several years ago. They are oil-quenched mild steel. If you post an address I can mail them out to you in April (or I can beg my wife to mail them out to you...she likes begging
). I've got a Great Helm but it's WAY to big for anyone to wear. It's 14 pounds, and has never gotten a dent...and I used it as my pell firing off shots every day!! Dukes, Barons and Knights have fired off shots at it...still no dents or pain for the wearer. If you are desperate, and you have a HUGE head in believe in TONS of padding I can ask her to mail it out to you too.
You would have to reimburse her for shipping.
I'll post pictures in a minute.
Pictures of me fighting in my Great Helm are at photos.yahoo.com/miaullis. I've never felt a twinge in that thing, but it IS bulky!
-Aaron
[This message has been edited by Aaron (edited 01-14-2004).]
You can see the arms at:
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/miaullis/detail?.dir=/My+Photos-Helm+by+Accentprone&.dnm=MVC-049S.jpg
My daughter wouldn't take a nap except in her Daddy's arms, so I reclined on my back and put her on my chest...and she fell asleep. I needed a nap too.
It's one of those times that make you feel like the king of the world.
-Aaron
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/miaullis/detail?.dir=/My+Photos-Helm+by+Accentprone&.dnm=MVC-049S.jpg
My daughter wouldn't take a nap except in her Daddy's arms, so I reclined on my back and put her on my chest...and she fell asleep. I needed a nap too.
It's one of those times that make you feel like the king of the world.
-Aaron
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Steve S.
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Hi neilhoward!
Welcome to the SCA. It is a ton of fun!
My advice is buy a kit to get started fighting in a reasonable amount of time. If you wait until you can make it all you are going to be at least 6 months away from wearing it.
For a beginner I would recommend finding a relatively inexpensive (~$200) helmet, a gorget, leg, and arm armour. Technically, you can get by with only simple elbow and knee "cops", but I highly recommend some kind of defense for the thigh, shin, and forearm. Unless you are willing to shell out for some thinner (and lighter), but high-strength heat treated carbon steel armour, I'd recommend going with leather greaves (shin), cuisses (thigh), and vambraces (forearm). These can be splinted with steel, if you like, which is a very 14th century germanic style.
The torso armour can be made relatively cheaply and easily. The coat of plates style of armour is fairly simple to construct:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/photo_gallery/COP/Coat_of_Plates.htm
They can be made of leather (which is durable) or out of sturdy fabric, like canvas.
Steve
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Forth Armoury
Highly authentic, affordable riveted maille.
[This message has been edited by Steve -SoFC- (edited 01-14-2004).]
Welcome to the SCA. It is a ton of fun!
My advice is buy a kit to get started fighting in a reasonable amount of time. If you wait until you can make it all you are going to be at least 6 months away from wearing it.
For a beginner I would recommend finding a relatively inexpensive (~$200) helmet, a gorget, leg, and arm armour. Technically, you can get by with only simple elbow and knee "cops", but I highly recommend some kind of defense for the thigh, shin, and forearm. Unless you are willing to shell out for some thinner (and lighter), but high-strength heat treated carbon steel armour, I'd recommend going with leather greaves (shin), cuisses (thigh), and vambraces (forearm). These can be splinted with steel, if you like, which is a very 14th century germanic style.
The torso armour can be made relatively cheaply and easily. The coat of plates style of armour is fairly simple to construct:
http://www.forth-armoury.com/photo_gallery/COP/Coat_of_Plates.htm
They can be made of leather (which is durable) or out of sturdy fabric, like canvas.
Steve
------------------
Forth Armoury
Highly authentic, affordable riveted maille.
[This message has been edited by Steve -SoFC- (edited 01-14-2004).]
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neilhoward
- New Member
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- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2004 2:01 am
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Aaron:
<B>You can see the arms at:
My daughter wouldn't take a nap except in her Daddy's arms, so I reclined on my back and put her on my chest...and she fell asleep. I needed a nap too.
It's one of those times that make you feel like the king of the world.
-Aaron</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Arms look great and so does the Pic let me know how much you want for them.
<B>You can see the arms at:
My daughter wouldn't take a nap except in her Daddy's arms, so I reclined on my back and put her on my chest...and she fell asleep. I needed a nap too.
It's one of those times that make you feel like the king of the world.
-Aaron</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Arms look great and so does the Pic let me know how much you want for them.
Neil,
Send me an address to my e-mail (miaullis@yahoo.com), and I will ask my wife to find them.
The cost would be that of shipping. They weigh something like 3 pounds (maybe less).
They are my best work, and beyond price...due to my time and enjoyment of making the arms(not the quality ). I only ask that you (1) enjoy them and (2) help out others when you get old and crusty in the SCA.
ENJOY making the your armour. Take your time, and enjoy each and every piece you make...even if it is totally awful. Every peice will have a story.
The arms I will give you were quenched in salad oil and ashes, blackening (possibly hardening) them in the Italian method. For almost a year, everyone who touched them got a sudden craving for popcorn....they smelled like popcorn for nearly a year!
-Aaron
Send me an address to my e-mail (miaullis@yahoo.com), and I will ask my wife to find them.
The cost would be that of shipping. They weigh something like 3 pounds (maybe less).
They are my best work, and beyond price...due to my time and enjoyment of making the arms(not the quality
). I only ask that you (1) enjoy them and (2) help out others when you get old and crusty in the SCA. ENJOY making the your armour. Take your time, and enjoy each and every piece you make...even if it is totally awful. Every peice will have a story.
The arms I will give you were quenched in salad oil and ashes, blackening (possibly hardening) them in the Italian method. For almost a year, everyone who touched them got a sudden craving for popcorn....they smelled like popcorn for nearly a year!
-Aaron