Italian 15th c Gauntlets research info needed

Errant Knight · Post by **Errant Knight** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:34 am

hi,

I've read what I could already find here, but a lot of the pictures are missing.

I wan't to know if this particular harness Left gauntlet is still considered to be an inacurate reproduction & are there any foot harness that have a seperate cuff & metacarpal (instead of raised 1 piece).

Also, if anyone has info regarding articulation of the right cuff-metacarpal on this or other suits.

es02 · Post by **es02** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 1:21 pm

last I heard the only issue with that suit was that the helmet probably didnt go with it originaly.

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 2:20 pm

One of the gauntlets ( I always forget which) is a replacement made for the armor when it was owned by Hearst. The replacement was made as mirror image of the remaining original. Some scholars ah criticized having symmetrical gauntlets on the suite though I believe more recent scholarship suggests that symmetrical left and right gauntlets would be correct for a suite of this date ( @1440). I believe Toby Capwell's recent book on the Scott collection discusses this but my copy isn't to hand.

Jeffrey Hedgecock · Post by **Jeffrey Hedgecock** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:59 pm

I've examined the Avant in person. Looked at the gauntlets quite carefully and Dave's right, the left is a really good mirror image replica of the right. (Just checked the Trapp Churburg catalog and the right is original)

Given the date of 1440 for the Avant, I think it's reasonable to think the original armour may have had symmetrical gauntlets. If the armour was from 1460-70 I would feel differently.

Since I've probably made more repros of Italian 15th c armour than anything else, it's somewhat of a specialty for me and I've done quite a bit of research in that area. I would say that symmetrical gauntlets on Milanese armours from 1400-1450 would be more typical than from 1450-80. The tendency from roughly 1450-80 seems to be toward asymmetrical gauntlets, where the left is more of a "bridle" gauntlet, with solid cuff/metacarpel and a single lame, longer articulated finger plates/scales. That's not to say that asymetrical gauntlets weren't done in the first half of the century, just that symmetrical gauntlets are probably more prevalent then. Overall there seems to be a trend toward more asymmetricality in armour during the period just prior to development of specific jousting armour. That is, in the 15th c up until roughly 1485-90 when armours built for only jousting hit the scene. Before this, we see augmented field armours with exchanges pieces for the tilt.

At the end of the 15th c, field armours seem to transition somewhat back to symmetrical gauntlets, though not entirely.

As in all things with historical research, you shouldn't make too many generalizations about things like this. There are noticeable trends you can deduce from the evidence, but not hard and fast rules.

Errant Knight · Post by **Errant Knight** » Thu Dec 31, 2009 8:44 pm

Thanks a lot for that info guys.

Would this suit have the finger scales underneath? and have there been any that didn't have them?