The Armour Archive

Where do I get a block of lead to rivet on? You know, so the domed heads don't get flattened.

McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/#lead/=75su1l

Albrecht

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:Where do I get a block of lead to rivet on? You know, so the domed heads don't get flattened.

I use a rail road spike with a round hole that matches the rivet. Chuck it in a vise and GTG.

You can buy bulk lead from reloading supply places like Midway if you want to go that way. Or go to a tire shop and see if they have weights that you can have. Melting lead (outside) doesn't take a whole lot of heat. Just don't pull a Johnny Tremaine!

I collect wheel weights as I walk around town and when I get a bunch melt them down and skim the trash off the top.

Wheel weight alloy is a bit harder than straight lead, but still way soft compared to steel so it works better.

Of course if you are where they are mandating zinc weights...

Casting a number of different shapes can be helpful if you need to back rivets in odd places.

Thomas

Given the possibility of lead poisoning from dermal contact, wouldn't it make more sense to use a different material? I'm sure there's an alloy or two of pewter that would be very suitable. As well as some of the alloys used in lead free bullets. I mean, yeah, the chance of heavy metals poisoning from handling solid lead is slim, so long as the contact is limited, but why not switch to a material with zero chance of it?

Come to think of it.. lead free bullets would likely be ideal. The physical properties have to be pretty damned close to lead, as the weapons that fire them were designed to throw lead. This shall be investigated.

I'm not going to go out snorting powdered lead, and neither is Vitus. Lead is just not that dangerous if you know what it is and treat it with some basic respect.

I've found mom and pop shops who install tires are most likely to give you a bucket of their old weights for free. It costs them money to dispose of it, and they're not supposed to reuse the weights. Places like Sears and Walmart have policies against giving things away. If you buy a cheapo bucket you can melt the weights in it, and once you trim the bucket down to the height of the lead, you have a convenient holder for the melted lead.

McMaster-Carr has a lot of alloys that will work.

I have used the tin/lead alloy for years.
It is harder than lead and does not rub off.

Odd, when you are using an item *not* for it's original use; a replacement may not meet your requirements: eg I have run across a strain hardened micro alloyed leaf spring that could not be quench hardened like more "normal" leaf springs used to forge knifeblades from.

However if you are worried, tin is available by the pound too. Of course the dangers of repeated blows to the head is also well known so avoiding SCA heavy fighting will negate the need for possibly lead contaminated armour.

Thomas

Odd wrote:Come to think of it.. lead free bullets would likely be ideal. The physical properties have to be pretty damned close to lead, as the weapons that fire them were designed to throw lead. This shall be investigated.

Bismuth Shotshell

Bismuth Ingots & None-Dare-Call-It-Shot -- for legal reasons, I imagine. They hint at it, BROADLY, and offer for sale a mixed bag of itty bitty spheres of 95-5 Bis/Tin for the home reloader to suitably sift and have several shot sizes on hand. Ssshh.

I wasn't thinking of contaminated armor. It was more along the lines of finding a suitable substitute for it, so that you don't have to handle lead. I mean, really.. Lead sits between Arsenic and Mercury on the "Don't touch that if you don't have to" scale.

I have experienced heavy metals poisoning from aluminum exposure. It sucks in ways you cannot understand without experience. Figure it might be helpful to advise newbies away from something that is both toxic, and readily absorbed through the skin.

A block of aluminum, brass, or bronze, etc could work as well.

Oh yeah?

One of these may be an option for only $5.50 at the Yard Store.
http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,3617.html

Odd, I think you are exaggerating the hazard of lead a bit, as long as you aren't making airborne particles, aren't licking the block,& wash your hands afterwords, you should be reasonably safe.
It's not like he is sniffing the smoke from soldering radiators all day, not scuffing cable sheath for hours, or working in a lead foundry. he would be using a block of metal as a dolly. a block that could even be tool dipped on all sides other than the actual working face.

They were right before...railroad spikes work great. get a few...angle grind some down to a 1/2 or 3/4" flat point and drill a divet the size and depth of your rivet heads. The tapering lets you set rivets that are close to each other without marring the other heads. Clang welded a cross bar on some of his to stabelize it in the vice, but spikes are long enough to touch base in the vice so no a problem. I started by putting several size holes in the edges of a piece of railroad track and that worked fine for a long time. really holds the head in place and stablizes the piece while you hammer. Also TOMAR suggests simply clamping a rivet set into the vice is you have them.

Another option depending on the type of rivet is the ever handy hocky puck.

I am with Sha-ul.

Lead is bad. Sure. Having kids eat it is a bad thing. It does bad things to brain development and learning.

But we aren't grinding it. We aren't putting lumps of it in daycare centers. We are putting it on a bench and whacking it.

You are much more likely to be harmed by all of the other nasty things you are doing in the shop than a lead block.

I use lead blocks and every other tool. Rivet headers, sure - when I have the right shape or feel like making one. When I don't, out comes the lead.

If you want something harder like pewter/brass/iron, go for it. If you want something soft for rivets or general point-shaping, use lead and don't worry about it.

I wouldn't remelt the block in an indoor shop once a week, but this stuff isn't plutonium. It isn't that bad to have around.

Wade

I use a few lead ingots I picked up cheap on ebay. I think they were listed under fishung lure lead or something like that. I lay a piece of stout cloth over it before mashing rivets.

$0.02

Vilhelm

I melt lead shot in a tuna fish or soup can and then cut away the can when it has cooled.

Steve

Halberds wrote:One of these may be an option for only $5.50 at the Yard Store.
http://www.yardstore.com/browse.cfm/4,3617.html

Thanks for that link Hal.

f

get a ball bearing the size of your rivet head
get a piece of "drill rod" or any higher carbon steel rod
heat the end of the rod to cherry
put the bearing on a hard surface
line up the rod center over the bearing and hit the rod with a hammer
=homemade rivet "set"
cheers

Yes that will work Whonew... then quench and draw it to tool hardness.
I like tool steel... lots of useful things can be fabricated from it.
4140 is one of my faves.

A simple rivet set cradle can be made from a cheap 15 pound cast iron anvil from harbour freight.
I noticed on mine that pounding rivets... caused a divot that cradled the domed rivet head.

I have lots of rivet looking dents on my cheap ass cast iron ASO.

Hal

wcallen wrote:I am with Sha-ul.

Lead is bad. Sure. Having kids eat it is a bad thing. It does bad things to brain development and learning.

But we aren't grinding it. We aren't putting lumps of it in daycare centers. We are putting it on a bench and whacking it.

You are much more likely to be harmed by all of the other nasty things you are doing in the shop than a lead block.

I use lead blocks and every other tool. Rivet headers, sure - when I have the right shape or feel like making one. When I don't, out comes the lead.

If you want something harder like pewter/brass/iron, go for it. If you want something soft for rivets or general point-shaping, use lead and don't worry about it.

I wouldn't remelt the block in an indoor shop once a week, but this stuff isn't plutonium. It isn't that bad to have around.

Wade

He could have it much worse, he could be 15' in the air using a file card,& emery cloth to take off the lead oxide from a cable hung over 50 years ago, with running water& soap difficult to access during the day.

Vitus I have an extra hunk of lead kicking around the shop Pm me your info and I will send it on.

Try a plumbing supply store not lowes or menards, a real one.

I seem to have had better luck setting rivets in a brass bar that I picked up for scrap. I pilot drilled a hole in it, the after a few rivets pounded into it it matched perfect. I have tried the lead blocks, (which I LOVE for fluting) but the rivet seems to go into the lead too far, and I cant get a solid set on it. Sounds like I've just got some softer stuff, just old tire wieghts.

Balthazar
RJB Ironworks

No, I found the same problem with my lead block: Rivet heads eventually wollow out the hole or make it too deep.

I think brass might be better.

Steve

Hey never thought of that I have some lead blocks, I'll keep them for myself though

Okay, where do I get a brass block?

dont know about over there but here I am a source of such things, see the link to ebid in my sig.
I also have bronze, leaded copper, lead, and much more.
it would be too heavy to post to you though so find it there.

Buy some brazing rod and melt it?

make some from steel
either use a ball end milling cutter in a drill or get the steel hot in a forge and place on top of it a bit of steel strip half as thick as the desired diameter with a ball bearing of the right size sitting in a hole through the strip that is a tight fit on the ball then hit the ball with a hammer to make a perfect divot in the hot metal.
I might make a few to sell as it is easy to make a batch of them this way

Vitus von Atzinger wrote:Okay, where do I get a brass block?

I've found recycle yards to be a great resource for this type of thing.

http://www.rotometals.com/ is a good source for various metals. I buy my pewter from them, and I know they have lead and lead alloys.

-Derian.

Diving belt weights. Cheap. Real cheap.