The Armour Archive

Ok, it been a few years since I fought much. Genetics, and the discovery that I am a good cook, has added on enough mass to my frame to change the rotation of the planet and cause global warming. So now my wonderful suit of flat riveted mail no longer fits right. What I need now is suggestions (and I know diet and more exercise are the first things that come to mind). The thing is, I want to fight now, not wait for half a human to burn off. I'm preferring 11-12c suggestions. For example, does anyone have any documentation of a 12c hauberk that is open in the front and closes with buckles?

Nope.

But welcome and well come to the Archive! May your stay with us be long, and let's see about it profiting you much.

Let's save cutting up your riveted shirt for the very last resort -- or else consider it as a possible fundraiser to offset the cost of obtaining a new one in 3XL. Might you inform us just what tonnage we have now to contend with, and your height as well? It's good to have quantifiable, er, quantities. I guess you've put fifty-plus pounds on, and that sure is a lot of calories, eh? Resorting to diabetic recipes might restore you on the road to getting back to fighting weight. I've got an extra thirty or so that aren't doing me any good either. And since many of us here are men of a certain age and it was decades since they could fit into a men's size large T-shirt, there are several threads about fitting mail to fat guys. Try searching the site on "mail" + "fat".

Are we talking SCA hardstick here, or some other game? We get all kinds. All of them.

If you want hurry-up torso armor, two options immediately present themselves: latest-12th-c.-onwards Coat of Plates (the CoP) sufficiently large to accommodate that too too solid flesh; and second, the primarily quilted-fabric reinforced gambeson, which while less glossy than a steel shirt, is ageless and less expensive than the next mail shirt too, particularly if you already have access to a sewing machine. Gambesons can be hardened to SCA fighting standards readily with the insertion of kidney belt panels within the quilted fabric layers, in pockets constructed for the purpose. Likewise for a few bits elsewhere. Working in fabric is no great mystery, no tougher than working in leather. Indeed if you have to move a stitched seam somewhere else, it's easier, and fabric of course needs less to cut. It is definitely easier to give the gamby a stylish cut -- you may even attain a waistline, by enlarging chest/shoulders and skirt lines! Bet you didn't expect that. A standalone gamby might not last twenty years, but it will surely give you five to seven. The essential recipe is lots of discount linen for lining and stuffing, and something tight-weave and natural for the outer shell. If necessary, tie the sleeves on with points.

Steady fighting will of course help with burning off that half-person's-worth. But it has to be steady; try for once and twice a week if practicable. There must be walking, trotting, bicycling, swimming too. Worry about running when you feel peppier. Sweating and puffing are your friends here -- embrace them when they come. Some few of us like to cultivate the weights, since not only does the lifting burn the calories, but the muscle it forces to grow burns nine times the calories per pound of tissue that fat does, even asleep, and this is the kind of thing you want happening.

Height 5'9", weight 245.. both ish... Now wear 2X shirt.... SCA heavy since '76 (but almost nothing in the last few). Would guess the mail is a L. Also, I made a CoP and it looked ridiculous on me. I'm kind of addicted to mail.

Sell it to me and buy a larger hauberk. [I have the ulterior motive of wanting to get a used hauberk at a decent price]

You and I should do low impact exercise together once a week. I'm recovering from a shoulder issue so I don't want to do any extra upper body stuff in the near future though. Want to just walk around? I know your work schedule is crazy. Email me.

I don't really have a crazy schedule.. M-F 5am to 2pm. So yes, would be willing to whenever it fits into your schedule.

You could always use hidden sports armor until you can get the weight down. I know where you're coming from, I'm 6'1" 355. I've used hidden armor and a very cool but not period warbelt to cover the midsection. Good luck and welcome back.

Alric's idea is more or less where I'm coming from too, just more exposed, more out among the public. Style not stealth.

Roger that on the CoP: if they are not built with some waisting to them they are quite frankly the harness of which a man may rightly ask, "Does this armor make me look fat?" The straight-line version that is usually built is tubby. No other word for it. They can be made with a waistline to them, but ya gotta pay attention, and you form the plates more. Usually a pattern other than the "broad tab over head" inverted-T sort of Wisby CoP should be used for the waisted models -- buckling in the back a lot unless I'm AFU. And even then the dern things look their best on the medium to slender builds. Well, we've beaten enough dead-horse jerky for now; let's onward.

We should bother you about what kind of helmet you have, or what you desire to change to. Is your present hat 11th-12th-century, or is it something decoupled from persona's period but the price was good, or gotten for other good reason? We always ask about helmets because that is like the very swiftest way to determine what harness solutions coordinate, top to toes. 11th to 12th is the mid-hauberk era, so your likely helmets for your period of interest run from conicals, to gumdrops (conicals poofed out to a blunter rounder shape) to the various "saltshakers," pot helmets so named for their remarkably consistent resemblances to either saucepans inverted on the warrior's head or to the business ends of about every sort of saltshaker you can think of -- even the conical ones like Arthur's in The Holy Grail.

At 73" and 230-235ish, I take the XL tee for the close fit and 2X for the drapey, rather favoring the 2X for the airiness. At your 69" altitude, 2X runs fairly long I reckon, and stays tucked in.

Have you a kidney belt? Gaunts? -- what for limb armor? Some or all of these may translate, and while we're concentrating on torso armor solutions, this would be nice to know.

If you have but little in the way of legs or wish to remake legharness, search up "gamboised cuisses" for not just hints but general exposure to patterns. They are either persona-appropriate or close to it.

So, Hollywood fails me again.... no chainmail with buckles with historical documentation.... I'd never seen it, but who knows...
As for the other "temp" stuff that seems to hang around for ever. I don't need the mail to pass inspection to fight, I just like wearing when I fight.

And your helmet, David? And the other bits I asked about?

If your heart is set on maille, sell the small shirt and buy a larger one. When you lose weight, sell the larger and buy a smaller, if you wish. It's easier to wear a maille shirt that is too big than it is to wear one that is too small.

-- Gest

Helmets, I'm good with... I have a few that I like. I think I'll just buy another larger shirt of mail. I have son's for the smaller ones. Thank you all, and a special thanks to the Queens Champion of the Midrealm. you are all most helpful.

Sir David

Hey Sir David! Great to see your still around! Hope things are going well for you. I think I'd sell the old shirt and get a bigger one too. As Gest said, even if you lose a bunch of weight, it should still fit ok. Why is it, as you get older, the extra pounds are so much harder to lose? I've been struggling myself with that. Must be our metabolisms are slowing down. Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in losing your lbs. Otto ( Your devoted, yet pretty much worthless but snazzy, MIA squire)

I don't get on this much... My squire writes me in 2010 and I'm just not getting back to him.

Oy! Well, hello again! Anything happen?

I've gotten a new mail, new everything since this thread.. but what is funny is that the last post was my long lost Squire, Otto. I just now read it.... If I had come back to this a year and a half ago, I would of been back in touch with him. As for this thread... I've also moved to a different city and built another kit for my oldest son.

PrivMsg him... he was online today.

Sorry for the thread derail, what style of CoP other than the standard Visby would you recommend for getting a waisted/slim fit? I'm 5'8" and about 160, just getting back into the SCA after years out and I'd like to do my armor right this time.

Konstantin the Red wrote:Alric's idea is more or less where I'm coming from too, just more exposed, more out among the public. Style not stealth.

Roger that on the CoP: if they are not built with some waisting to them they are quite frankly the harness of which a man may rightly ask, "Does this armor make me look fat?" The straight-line version that is usually built is tubby. No other word for it. They can be made with a waistline to them, but ya gotta pay attention, and you form the plates more. Usually a pattern other than the "broad tab over head" inverted-T sort of Wisby CoP should be used for the waisted models -- buckling in the back a lot unless I'm AFU. And even then the dern things look their best on the medium to slender builds. Well, we've beaten enough dead-horse jerky for now; let's onward.

I ordered http://www.polarbearforge.com/lamellar.htm

This guy was nice, shipped fast, and already had all the rivet holes in it. It's a kit, so you have to supply your own rivets and leather. I got this for my son, and he was able to put it together in about 10 hours. To get it down to his size, he eliminated some of the plates. We looked around online for completed kits, and there are some good ones, and some very cheap ones that are not worth a plug nickle. .... oh, and 5'8" and 160 .... I hate you .

David deKunstenaar wrote:Height 5'9", weight 245.. both ish... Now wear 2X shirt.... SCA heavy since '76 (but almost nothing in the last few). Would guess the mail is a L. Also, I made a CoP and it looked ridiculous on me. I'm kind of addicted to mail.

ahh thats not so bad I'm 6' 2" and a few pounds shy of 300, I wear a 2X as well. 23 and just looking into getting started into SCA. lol