Byzantine Helmet/13th century sources ?

George fH · Post by **George fH** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:04 am

Hi all

I have been trying to find a few primarysources for the helmet to the right in the added picture.
David Nicoles "Arms and Armour..." has some sketches that is close, but its not what im looking for- I dont know if one could call this some sort of pseudo kettle hat?

Any information guiding me would be great.

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:05 am

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... ine_Empire
The Byzantine Romance of Alexander the Great.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... essaly.JPG
Mounted soldier with camail in the bottom left quarter

A lot of Byzantine art has what I refer to as the "kettle-petite" or "demi-kettle", which looks alot like a conical with a small brim or flared band.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Byzan ... -Lucas.jpg
http://honorblade.com/stuff/cet/hat/art ... ce-guy.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Byzan ... s_1295.jpg

George fH · Post by **George fH** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:26 am

Perfect- just the kind of information I wanted- Thank you!!

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:55 am

In hoc signo vinces!

Medka · Post by **Medka** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:52 am

Does anyone have any idea where this is from ?

http://honorblade.com/stuff/cet/hat/art ... ce-guy.jpg

Greetings,
Medka

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:57 pm

I have a picture of the larger piece... somewhere...
but can't seem to find it.

It depicts a Byzantine army relieving (rescuing) a besieged fortress.

Since it's not where I thought it was, it may take some time to find.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:57 am

Thanks for the link D. Sebastian.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... pt_166.JPG
Look at the forth one from the right.
Looks like a red English Bobby Helmet.

D. Sebastian · Post by **D. Sebastian** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:05 am

Osprey'sAngus McBride did a good job of 'realizing' that art into practical assumption:

http://www.honorblade.com/adam/byzantine%20soldiers.jpg
(#2 botom left)

My question on the art from the manuscript...

That helmet style is depicted throughout with a line up the front.
Sometines it's between the eyes (like a crease in the helm construction), and just as often it's over the closer eye (like the edge of a reinforcing spangen band).

Can't tell which it is because the soldiers are ALWAYS depicted wearing it while in a 3/4 profile.

???