Good helm padding?

[Livia Tasia]

What is the best top of the line type of padding to use hot a helm?

[schreiber]

I don't know what you mean, but I'm never going to put anything on my head other than padding I made myself.
Wool roving stuffed inside sewn channels FTW.

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

@OP: ??? Clarify?

[Livia Tasia]

Ah crap. I hate this auto correct on my iPod! I need to pad the inside of my helm and I want to use the best materials. On my regular helm I have a combination of egg foam and the more concentrated black foam. But I have heard there is better stuff to use.

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

Sorbothane.

Period Suspension liner using raw wool and/or Horsehair as padding with a linen shell.

Also there is this: http://www.windrosearmoury.com/zc/index ... ucts_id=93

[Kilkenny]

I am a fan of a combination of Sorbethane and foam neoprene rubber (frequently available as pipe insulation, which works quite nicely for padding helms).

I use the Sorbethane against the steel over the temples, back it with the foam neoprene, and use the foam neoprene by itself every place else. Taking advantage of the tube shape to form channels for ears and air flow.

I like this very much.

[Livia Tasia]

Very cool - thanks guys I'll start gathering those items up.

[Blackoak]

I LOVE my linen arming cap from RevivalUS. Best money I have spent in 15 years fighting.

Uric

[Iain mac Gillean]

My Lady made me a padded arming cap. I'd recommend one of these, just for the comfort and convenience of it. At the end of the day, you can wash it, and save the foam/adhesive any of the corrosive effects of the sweat you'll be pouring off.

[Konstantin the Red]

There is very very much to be said for a period lining -- quilted linen, linen tow if you can get it, quilted all-wool blanketing.

The disadvantage to solid-foam-everywhere linings is heat builds up and sweat runs into your eyes. A more airy and more sweat-wicking approach to helmet padding is much better, obviously. Vertical air channels are good things, and a particularly advantageous property of using pipe insulation for padding: it's a skinny soft foam tube.

Many fighters use a rather skeletonized layout for their last-ditch layer, padding their helms with one or another dual-density scheme: soft stuff nearest their skulls and a stiffer layer right next to the metal for if some Super-Duke compresses everything out of their soft layer with a vigorous polearm hit. The skeletonized thing is usually a spangen-frame: browband all around at temple level, and more strips crossing over the top of your head. Its actual layout depends on your helm type, which I'd like to find out.

For instance, if your helm is a bascinet, a period bascinet lining is really da bomb! Quilted linen hoodlike affair, often as not extended out from the helmet to line the camail also in a bit of thin padding, and said hood affair is sewn into the bottom edges of the helmet. Use a Dremel tool's drill bit to make the sewing holes in the helmet's metal. And a skeletonized spangen-frame of high-density or closed-cell foam still can fit inside this between helmet and linen liner if you like.

[Livia Tasia]

The sweat issue has been a problem with my current helm. That makes sense now. So I definitely do not want to repeat that with my new helm. Here is a picture of what it looks like:



So the stiffer layer next to the helm itself would be the pipe material (or Sorbethene?) and then the soft stuff would be next to my head. Then an arming cap.

What do you guys use for the soft material? I've heard people are moving away from the egg foam type of material. I've got my bell rung a few times in my very basic starter helm. I got this one heavier since that was what was recommended because of my neck issue. So I want super tight padding on it.

ETA: I can't find the arming cap on revivalUS. Is there another web site that has them?

[Rana]

Where does one find sorbothane? I've only found it for shoe padding, and it rocks for that too!

[CiaranBlackrune]

Where does one find sorbothane? I've only found it for shoe padding, and it rocks for that too!

Where does one get everything? Mcmaster-Carr!

[Konstantin the Red]

Talk to the fighters around Three Mountains too, about your trouble with sweat in your face and get input about what they do... particularly the guys who don't have sweaty faces when they unhelm. What are their secrets?

I think right now you have to google it up, but the Archive still has a Patterns page and there is an armyng-coif pattern in it. But lessee... here we go.

From http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/.

[James B.]

I use period tech; linen shell with raw cotton stuffing; stuffed then quilted.

I find it vastly superior in taking a shot over foam and it has the added bonus of wicking sweat. Also linen does not hold odor the same way other cloth materials do.

[Kilkenny]

The sweat issue has been a problem with my current helm. That makes sense now. So I definitely do not want to repeat that with my new helm. Here is a picture of what it looks like:

So the stiffer layer next to the helm itself would be the pipe material (or Sorbethene?) and then the soft stuff would be next to my head. Then an arming cap.

The pipe insulation I was describing (foam neoprene rubber) is a soft foam. Resilient, but nice and gushy This is not the rather stiff, somewhat crackly sort of pipe insulation. I recommend strongly against using that in a helm (almost as much as I recommend not using blue camp mat foam!).

One brand name for the foam neoprene insulation is armaflex - I think I spelled that right

[Livia Tasia]

Oh wow. I've used that crackly foam before good to know. I'm going to contact someone here to help me pad it up I was wanting ho get the supplies together first and get dome input on what any new methods are out there since the last time I did it. Sounds like there are a few.

Thanks guys!!!!

[Michael Cartwright]

Period liner.

Accept no substitutes.

[Livia Tasia]

I can't seem to find arming caps that I can buy rather than make. Anyone have any fave websites they want to throw out. Never found anything on revivalUS.

Thanks.

[InsaneIrish]

I can't comment on padded liners, but this is what I do:



I use 2 different thicknesses of foam from Windrose. Both are the black EVA foam. I use both 1/2" and 1/4" thick versions. If I can get teh self adhesive I buy that.

Basically I make a "cap" in the manner shown above with 1/2" thick foam. Make it to fit my head. (if you wear an arming cap, chainmail, et al. make sure to put that on and measure to fit). Then once I have the cap frame built ( I simply use ductape and tape it all together). I then put it on and then put the helm on. I look to see where I need to add padding to "flesh" out the cap so that it will fit inside the helm snuggly.

I use the thinner foam when making fine adjustments, like making the helm sit higher or lower on my head. If I need to pad the cap out alot, I use the black EVA next to my head and finish it out with blue camp foam. The key is to build out the cap in the same shape as the original design. Don't put foam in open areas. Those are there for heat transfer and air circulation.

Once the whole thing is done a few folded over tabs of ductape should hold the liner inside. That way if you need to remove it later for cleaning/maintanence, you won't have to remake the whole liner. Just pull it out.

[Livia Tasia]

Very cool! Thanks for the diagram. Will definitely print that out.

[Amanda M]

I bought a period liner when I got my helm but it wouldn't fit. They are not one size fits all. >_<

[Rhyance]

In previous helms I've had hot spots, pressure points that were incredibly painful...but this thing works:



Sure it was a bit more work to make, but it was worth it. I used buffalo-hide for the suspension liner, as I happened to have some around, and I used closed-cell and mousepad to keep my head centered in it. Of course, first I checked to verify that suspension liners were legal and they are if there's no way for your head to touch metal. With this arrangement I can't touch metal with the chinstrap on.

It's one continuous piece of leather with those fingers laced together up top. You can see the layer of leather between the blue foam and the steel. It took a lot of work with masking tape to make the pattern, but it was worth it.

But the best part is that the buffalo-hide distributes the weight absolutely evenly. It's by far the most comfortable way I've ever rigged a helm. No hot spots, no pressure points, nuthin'! The only thing I might do differently is to add a little padding to slow down the impact-absorbtion time on strikes from the top. Strikes from the side are handled just fine.

[Livia Tasia]

That's nice. What is the blue stuff in between what looks like leather and black foam?

Do you have any sort of directions like InsaneIrish's diagram? I think some sort of combination between the two would be cool.

[Konstantin the Red]

It's a brow-band, such as would be in the spangen-frames discussed above, out of Smurf blubber. That'd be the high-density, last-ditch absorber.

And run a search in Design & Construction on "suspension liner" to get all the info we have on this method. His suspension liner just features more "crown points" than many do. He could have made it in two halves from a single broad rectangle of leather by cutting out Lombard Drive down the middle to make alternating fingers -- if that's the bit of leather you have lying around. Or in fabric -- dag-making, in essence. Or piecing the whole thing together from scraps. You know how to piece two bits of leather together, right, Liv? Skive, glue together, pouncing-wheel, punch/stab, and stitch. Very strong. By hand it also takes a durn while, but when you're done it isn't going to come apart.

[Andrew Sterner]

I was wearing a loaner helm earlier today, and it was lined with some type of cellular padding. No harder closed cell, no "styrofoam looking" stuff, just about 2 inches of this foam. I'm not sure what it was, gut I took a SOLID(intentionally excessive) shot to the side of the helm from a glaive, and had no jar or anything(just a loud ring of the helmet, and a bit of push where the helmet moved in). I was honestly surprised when I asked if it was a good shot, and was told it was excessive. Keep in mind I live in Atlantia. I'm not sure what exactly it was lined with, but I know it's going into my helm when I found out what it is

[Konstantin the Red]

Sounds like you also had your head inside a helm that is bigger than you really need, Andrew. Not necessarily a bad thing except from a fashion viewpoint, but yeah, that is a very typical headshot experience: noise + head-rock. That's how I tell good head shots from bad ones. Particularly powerful shots I also taste rust off the inside of my hat. Ptui.

[Livia Tasia]

I've got tons of leather pieces left over from making my armor so that should be east enough. One of our local fighters offers up a monthly armor workshop so I'm going to take both designs and see how to implement them. My big thing is, cushy pad first then deal with sweat issue.

Still trying to find a darn arming cap online.

[Konstantin the Red]

Oookay -- but be prepared to make your own if mail order won't come through. I do not fixate on buying it if I can make it, and about the only sewing project that's simpler is a T tunic.

[Livia Tasia]

Really? I made all my tunics and roman dresses. I guess I can figure this out too. I made my gambeson.

[Iain mac Gillean]

I was wearing a loaner helm earlier today, and it was lined with some type of cellular padding. No harder closed cell, no "styrofoam looking" stuff, just about 2 inches of this foam. I'm not sure what it was, gut I took a SOLID(intentionally excessive) shot to the side of the helm from a glaive, and had no jar or anything(just a loud ring of the helmet, and a bit of push where the helmet moved in). I was honestly surprised when I asked if it was a good shot, and was told it was excessive. Keep in mind I live in Atlantia. I'm not sure what exactly it was lined with, but I know it's going into my helm when I found out what it is

When you learn what this stuff is, you'll of course have to spill the beans...

[Andrew Sterner]

Sounds like you also had your head inside a helm that is bigger than you really need, Andrew. Not necessarily a bad thing except from a fashion viewpoint, but yeah, that is a very typical headshot experience: noise + head-rock. That's how I tell good head shots from bad ones. Particularly powerful shots I also taste rust off the inside of my hat. Ptui.

You're exactly right. It was a "loaner" helm, so it's not supposed to have the ladies(and gentles) drooling over me, haha. I mainly posted because I was surprised at how effective the padding was, given my last experience(camp pad foam). I'm going to go out and buy my own helm(I have a small head) once I get more funds.

@ Iain: I most certainly will, so long as i don't forget. The next time I'll see the local folks will be at the Baronial Investiture on the 9th, so I'll make sure to ask what the "street" term is as well as what the scientific term. I was told the street term, but I was busy in thought and can't remember what it was called. And like I said before, I have yet to invest in a helm, but I'm fairly confident I'll be investing in this stuff for padding.

[Konstantin the Red]

Welp, any closed cell foam (that would be the "more concentrated black foam" you spoke of earlier, Liviatasia) that is squidgey and rubbery rather than stiff of texture, is the kind of foam that will do. Neoprene and Sorbothane, even gel cells, craft foam and mousepads -- all these have been used to good effect.

Stiff-texture closed-cell, like pool-noodles and electronics shipping foam -- this stuff is warheads for polearms, because it's tough and transmits effective whacks. Occasionally it wants clackers for its striking edges to get an inattentive rhino's, well, attention.

[Kilkenny]

I was wearing a loaner helm earlier today, and it was lined with some type of cellular padding. No harder closed cell, no "styrofoam looking" stuff, just about 2 inches of this foam. I'm not sure what it was, gut I took a SOLID(intentionally excessive) shot to the side of the helm from a glaive, and had no jar or anything(just a loud ring of the helmet, and a bit of push where the helmet moved in). I was honestly surprised when I asked if it was a good shot, and was told it was excessive. Keep in mind I live in Atlantia. I'm not sure what exactly it was lined with, but I know it's going into my helm when I found out what it is

Two inches of foam between the helm and your head? It would take especially bad foam to not be thoroughly protective at that point.

[MalkomeKarre]

ETA: I can't find the arming cap on revivalUS. Is there another web site that has them?

http://revival.us/linenhelmetliner.aspx I think this is what he was talking about. Might be getting one myself

And it looks like they're out of stock.