Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

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Keegan Ingrassia
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

As usual, y'all are right. :lol: One straight strip is the way to go. It will be an interesting experiment to see if Mac's technique is viable for a wider strip...the border for his PDB looked to be about 1/2", while this cuff is closer to 1-1/8".

Measuring the circumference of the cuff at it's widest point tells me that I'm going to need a piece at least 16" long. Since my biggest piece of brass on hand is 12" long, and 24ga., I'll have to order some longer stock before I can make these.

That said, nothing ventured, nothing learned! It's worth the experiment, if only to try out the technique and see what the working properties will be.


To start, here's a shot of the "final" curve of the cuff, based on a tape pattern pulled directly from the gauntlet. You can see that the 6"x12" piece of brass it's sitting on, for reference.

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Off to the races: one 12"x1-1/8" straight strip, to start.

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From there, I went through five rounds of annealing and raising down the ribbon, based on the technique Mac described on his PDB thread. The first several passes were rather slow, likely due to the greater width of the starting strip. However, by the fourth round, it began to curve much more rapidly.

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It's worth noting at this point that the thickness along the inside of the arc had only increased to .028" (23ga.), while the outside arc remained .025" (24ga.). The ribbon did exhibit a few other differences, though: while it had started out 1-1/8" in width, it was now 1-1/4" wide. Additionally, the 12" length had now stretched to 13" along the outer circumference. It's surprising that despite this drastic change in dimensions, it had not measurably changed its thickness.

A quick clean-up of the surface revealed a finish, not unlike hammered gold. This could have been entirely due to my work surface, however.

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From here, I tried a few trial runs on decorative embossing on different substrates.

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I found the steel supports highly likely to transfer harsh tool marks to the surface. Conversely, a wooden support did not provide a crisp enough mark, and allowed surrounding material to wrinkle. Of the three, the lead block struck the right balance between support and non-marring, leaving fairly sharp impressions. Perhaps going back over the dotted border with a rivet set to sharpen up the hemispheres a bit, but otherwise promising.

Finally, I tried my hand at some of the planned wiggle work that will go on the final piece. Turns out, candid shots in an ill-lit shop make capturing both surface topography and engraved lines a little difficult.

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That's all from me for tonight. Certainly going to be a glitzy pair of gauntlets, once all this brass is in place.

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Johann ColdIron
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Johann ColdIron »

Huzzah for test pieces! They should be part of every unexplored skill or tactic. Not only do you not ruin your already done steps but they are great to have on the A&S table later when explaining your technique to others.

The frosting look is likely your work surface since it looks like it started life as a piece of rough mill finished steel. Since you are doing several steps after that is not a bid deal. Real question is when to get a good base shine established. Before embossing or afterwards. It would be easier to do it before the embossing but will the work done afterwards re-texture it? The lead might not impart much texture but that too would be good to test.
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Keegan Ingrassia
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

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That's a good point, Johann! I think establishing a base shine before embossing would be best, even if a second polish is necessary afterward...it would be extremely difficult to polish all the low spots after all the detail is in place. I'll sand up and polish the other half of the test piece, and see how much texture the lead imparts.

To that end, here's a clearer shot of the piece from last night, now that I've got some sunlight to help the photo. You can clearly see the rough surface in the low spots. This piece was only wire brushed to remove discoloration from annealing, then hit with the buffer to bring it up to a shine. It was then embossed, wiggle-worked, then polished again. This second polish might be inadvisable; while it polished the highs significantly more than the lows, it also erased some of the depth and clarity of the wiggle work.

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The next test, I'll properly finish the surface by sanding it, then polishing.

During my lunch break today, I stepped out to the shop and worked on getting the fingers attached to the knuckle riders. Using a highly-sophisticated system of tape and clamps, I secured the fingers to the glove, and the glove to the gauntlet.

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From there, I was able to determine where the "root" of each finger leather landed along the knuckle rider. I had anticipated that it would fall close to the middle, but was surprised to find it almost at the far back edge on both hands. I'm glad I went with a test fit, rather than just assume their placement; the fingers would have ended up too long, causing slop when contracted and floating knuckles when straight.

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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Johann ColdIron »

Polish is always a challenge on a variable height surface. You can burn through the high spots in a moment.

Wire wheel on a grinder/buffer? Be sure it is not imparting it's own texture. Depending on the wire gauge, buffer speed and orientation of the wires some can be quite aggressive!

I'd suggest Scotch brite pad with a block behind it for scale removal. Could even do a first pass with light sandpaper afterwards to prep the surface for polish before embossing. If it came to it you could use dremel buffing wheels with rouge to hit the sides of the bar details and in the valleys to avoid the wiggles. With a base sanding before embossing the wiggles can probably stand alone.

Nice wiggles too ;)
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Scott Martin »

If you are looking for a "clean" finish on your final brass band, you will need to make sure that your sheet (after "bending") has a flat surface within about 0.001", or you will get burn-through on polishing. Since you are using a lead block as backing, this shouldn't impart any surface irregularities to the brass as you do the embossing. You can then do the wiggle work (which will be about 0.005" deep) and go straight to polish (white or green, red if you have good dust collection). This sill limit the "cut" to under 0.001" even on the "high" spots. I'd recommend an autobody sander with 320 grit paper, or a coarse (brown or grey) tripoli to make your "sheet" flat before you start the final shaping and embossing. It's 10 minutes early that will save you hours later.

I'll try to post pics of my gauntlet thumb that I polished through, which is why my "coarse" polish for gauntlets is now 320 grit, and my polish methodology is now planish / 320 grit / 600 grit / white tripoli.

I'm using 22 gauge for these pieces (0.032" before shaping) and it's incredibly tough once heat treated BUT the edges and points are easy to grind through by mistake...

n the plus side, my gauntlet weight is now coming close to historic norms (~1.5 pounds / 700g per gantlet including the glove, the weight of which actually matters). This is in stark contrast to the insane clunkiness of SCA gear which can often weigh more than medieval weapons. I have seen 4 pound (1.75 kg) gauntlets in use which is just crazy, and let's not mention the plastic "Gauntlet simulators" which can be a foot wide.

Scott

(edited to fix a typo)
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Keegan Ingrassia
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

Thank you both for the guidance on cleanup and polish!

Right now, my process (for brass) goes something like this:
  • Gross shaping with a nylon hammer.
  • Final anneal in preparation for embossing.
  • Initial clean on a well-broken-in wire wheel on a 1/2 HP grinder.
  • 320 grit on a hard block.
  • 600 grit on a padded block.
  • Red rouge on a sewn sisal wheel.
  • Green tripoli on a loose wheel.
  • After that, I do the embossing, back through the sanding/polishing steps if necessary (hopefully not, as long as I don't screw up and smash something), then assembly, and lastly wigglework. Maybe one final pass with the green tripoli, before cleaning and wax.

At the moment, sanding is either done by hand or on an angle grinder. My next big purchase for the shop will be a belt sander, which should help greatly.
Also need to pick up a set of proper gravers for the wigglework...


Ah! Scott, your mention of weight had me nervous, so I borrowed the cooking scale to get some accurate numbers. With all the remaining pieces and the glove, each of my gauntlets are clocking in at 1lb, 10oz. (just about 735g). A tad heavy, but I expected much worse, as all the steel is 16ga...even the fingers.

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"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

Alright! Got the new brass in and cut to size. Based on the test run, these are 18" x 1", which should both widen and lengthen as I walk it through the curving process. This material is also 0.032" as opposed to my test piece, which was 0.025", so there's a little extra meat for sanding and polish.

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The fingers have now been riveted to the knuckle bow, which was satisfying to step back and see. They're almost starting to look like something, now.

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The next step will be the Great Felting of the gloves. After I've gotten the brass cuffs built, decorated, and riveted on, I can finally sew the gloves in.

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Getting close, now!
"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

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Switching gears from working on my mail sleeves and hopping back over to this project for a bit. Honestly, I just needed an evening out of the house; the last month was hitting me hard, mentally.

Began to pull the brass strips around, and it immediately became apparent that the 1" strips are exponentially faster to flat-curve than the 1-1/4" piece. I was able to curve the strips about twice as fast. In the picture below, the narrow strips have only had two rounds of annealing and flat-curve passes, while the old test piece had five. I'll probably have to start checking the metal against the paper pattern on the fourth pass, at this rate.

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I've also glued on the first patch of felt to the back of the gloves. I still need to put a layer across the thumb, and after that I'll add a second layer to a few places that could use just a little extra cushion. In retrospect, it would have made a cleaner finish if I'd put the supplemental patches down first, then followed up with this whole-hand cover to help hold the smaller pieces in place. Live and learn. :roll:

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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Halberds »

Thanks for the pics. Don't stop believing.
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Keegan Ingrassia
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

Thanks Hal. :)


Got the cuffs completely curved around to match the tape patterns tonight. The right cuff took four rounds, left one took five. I haven't checked the length of the circumference yet, but it's a surprising amount of extra material. I'll be interested to see if that shortens up any as I lay in all the embossing.

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Also got the thumbs felted while I was out there. It doesn't look pretty right now, but I glue on the felt oversized, then trim down to the adhesion line after it's set. It's a little wasteful on materials, but it's much less fiddly to do it this way.

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The next shop outing will likely be the beginning of the emboss work on the brass. I'm looking forward to that part. :D
I'm less excited about sewing in the gloves, but that's going to be a necessary step very soon, as well.
"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

The felting for the thumbs turned out rather nice. I might needle-felt the seam between the two pieces together, just to lower the chance of an edge lifting up.

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Behind the glove, you can see that the brass has been prepped for embossing. It took a couple of sanding passes, a bouging against a woodblock to bring up the low spots, more sanding, buffing, and polishing.
Before I got started, I made sure to put a couple of marks with a centerpunch, so I know which is which (1 pip for Right, 2 pips for Left...I think :lol:).

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Marking the line from the edge was easy enough, but my bigger challenge was making sure my border dots were evenly spaced. Behold, my cobbled-together two-part centerpunch and dapping punch.

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The smaller diameter punch acts as the marker for the next dot, while the larger punch forms the final impression. It's important that the smaller punch is also a rounded head; a normal centerpunch makes too sharp of an impression for the larger punch to override. Tilting the tool about 2 degrees back towards the larger punch allows the majority of the force to go into the final impression, and the smaller punch only marks the placement for the following strike. I found this approach much faster and less fiddly than marking with a steel divider, or placing the dots individually (as I'd done on the initial test piece).

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In less than 30 minutes, I had the full circumference of both bands dapped. Even with the lead block, though, I still had gotten a waffled edge. This was because I'd placed my dots much closer to the outside edge than I had on the test piece, because these bands are about 1/4" narrower than the test piece.

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Thankfully, this was easily remedied with a rawhide hammer and the aforementioned lead block. In the second picture below, you can see left vs. right how the edge has now set down into a smooth line again. Because the dots are geometrically stronger than the waffled edge, and the lead happily takes an impression, I could just smack the back of the brass without having to worry about crushing the embossing. It actually sharpened up the transition of the dots to the background, which was a nice side effect.

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Here's where they stand this evening. The next shop outing will be laying in the ridges, which will need a little more careful planning than the dots along the edge...I need to leave enough space for the wigglework going between each of them.

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"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

Quick in-progress shot. Because of the narrower cuff, I made a 1/2" long pyramid punch, as opposed to the 3/4" long one I used on the test piece. That saved enough cuff width that I'll still have room for the spiraled wigglework at the inside edge of the brass. Speaking of wigglework, I've got a proper graver ordered (as opposed to the sharpened micro-screwdriver I've been using)...should be here Friday.

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As an aside, I've done no additional shaping to match the brass to the gauntlet at this point. This entire curve (from the flat brass in the previous picture) occurred from the process of embossing the ridges.
"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

The left cuff has been brought up to match the right.

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Next step will be riveting the attachment leather to the inside of the gauntlet cuff. Pulling inspiration from the Bargello gauntlets (ref_arm_1298_006), I'll be attaching the leather with a hidden set of rivets a little higher, then attach the decorative brass along the outer rim, covering them.

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"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

Leather edging needs so many rivets.

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Keegan Ingrassia
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

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Spread out over the past month, I eked out 5 minutes here and there to duck into the shop and process the 30-ish rivets I needed to put down the leather edging.

The nails I use not only have flashing under the head that needs to be removed, but the points also need to be filed narrower; the process of cutting a diamond head on them at the factory swelled the shank just above the point, and prevents them from fitting through the 3/32" holes I'd punched.

Got it done, though, and spent a couple of hours tonight getting the leather riveted in.

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Next step will be to rivet on the brass cuffs, then wigglework. After that, I'll sew in the gloves, and finally I'll rivet on the fingertips. Getting close...
"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

Hey look, the next step is happening!

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For the most part, the cuffs have behaved, though some gentle persuasion with a nylon-head hammer has been needed on occasion to match the curves. After this is a quick polish to refresh the surface, then all the wigglework. There will be the spiraling line along the top, and then there's a narrower strip of wigglework between every ridge.
"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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Re: Some new tools, and a new project - hourglass gauntlets

Post by Keegan Ingrassia »

Looks like it's almost time for my annual project update. :roll: Turns out, a newborn takes up just as much time the second time around...who knew?! :lol: In addition, the past year has been focused on a slew of family-related endeavors...moving my parents out of the ancestral home, also moving my in-laws out of their home, designing a new house for them (which is almost done being built on our property), and various other property improvements...larger chicken run, new garden beds, fencing in the place and finally getting a gate across the front drive...oh, and I got a new job.


In between all of that, I've been clawing out minutes to get these moved forward, one rivet at a time.

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This one is ready to have the glove sewn in and the fingertips attached. The left still needs its brass cuff affixed, and then it can similarly move forward.
"There is a tremendous amount of information in a picture, but getting at it is not a purely passive process. You have to work at it, but the more you work at it the easier it becomes." - Mac
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