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Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 2:10 am
by Baron Alcyoneus
Image

Artifacts of a group of authors published -
Mäesalu, A., Peets, J., Haiba, E. 2008. Nahast küünarvarrekaitsmed keskaegsest Tartust -
Loodus, inimene ja tehnoloogia 2. Interdistsiplinaarseid uurimusi arheoloogias. Muinasaja
teadus, 17. Tallinn - Tartu.
Summary in English -

Quote
The excavations in the medieval part of Tartu in 2000 brought to light an amazing find – from a timber-curbed cesspit (latrine) two wholly preserved leather guards for lower arm, vambraces,
strengthened with rows of iron strips and rivets, were discovered. Their leather part is well preserved, some damage can be observed only near elbow. Since the left arm guard was tucked
into the right one, it was in somewhat better condition (Figs. 4a, 4b; 5a, b). The prolonged stay in the compact latrine contents had compressed them flat.The conservation of the arm guards was carried out in the laboratory for geoarchaeology and ancient technology of the Institute of History. Before conservation the find was X-ray-photographed (Fig. 6) and the outline of the location of its details was drawn. To eliminate chlorides from metal and leather the find was soaked in distilled water for about six weeks, replacing water every week. The arm guards softened to some extent in water and were easily detached from each other without damaging metal details. At the elbow of the left arm guard fungous and bacterial damage could be observed, as a result of which a part of leather was destroyed (Figs. 4a, 4b). The damage on the right arm guard was of a smaller extent – leather was wholly preserved but considerably darkened and deformed. In the damage of leather the chemical effect of the environment also played an important role. The complete rusting of iron details was evidently advanced by the high acidity of the leather. After the elimination/removal of chlorides the armour details were soaked in the solution of PEG 400 with ethanol additive during three weeks to compensate to some extent the decrease of tannin in leather. Owing to the prolonged soaking of arm guards in water and PEG solution they somewhat softened and it became possible partly to restore their original shape. Iron details were mechanically cleaned. Loose details were glued to their places with acetone glue made of acrylic polymer Paraloid B-72. Next, metal was treated with water solution of tannin with the addition of ethanol and a little ortophosphoric acid. Beeswax softened to creamy consistence in turpentine was used to cover the metal details treated with tannin solution. The arm guards from Tartu are most likely made of thicker skin of horse's withers in the technique of cuir bouilli (boiled leather). Stiff objects with persistent shape are made of leather tanned with tannic substances (herbal tanning) by scalding it at 75–90 oC in water trough. After drying the shape of the object will persist but leather loses its elasticity, becomes stiff and hard, while the shrinking is low owing to the saturation with tannins. The leather parts of the arm guards of Tartu were probably made in this way. First the craftsman cut the blanks from tanned leather. Then the process of cuir bouilli and the shaping of arm guards followed, after which they were most likely left to dry on a special last. Then metal details were riveted to the leather base – steel strips alternately with rows of rivets, and also buckles. Arm guards were most likely also treated with wax or grease (evidently repeatedly throughout the period of their use) to make them weatherproof. The reason why completely whole arm guards were discarded will remain uncertain, as well as the place of their manufacture and, of course, the armourer who made them. The possible place of manufacture may be Tartu or Tallinn, or perhaps some German town. For example in Tallinn arm guards for upper and lower arms, evidently made of leather (Armleder, Actearmleder), are mentioned among the defence equipment distributed by town authorities to males in about 1360. Since the find from Tartu is the first discovery of medieval leather arm guards in Europe, it is quite difficult to define them temporally and typologically. Only medieval works of art, where warriors and their armours are sometimes drawn quite in detail, can be used for a comparable source. On the basis of works of art, preserved primarily in Germany, we may presume that analogous arm guards were used already in 1330s, but the closest parallels to the Tartu find date from the final decades of the 14th century. It is possible that such vambraces were sporadically still used at the beginning of the 15th century. The rare leather arm guards are stored in the Town Museum
of Tartu (A-115:1209 and A-115:1265).

Posted on the A&AF by Alexsandr Gladchenkov

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:42 am
by Graham Ashford
Lovely find, the work done on shaping them is fantastic.

Thanks for posting.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:19 am
by Vilhelm550
I wonder if the buckles where found wiht/near them. Or were they discarded because the buckles and straps ripped out, and the entire vambrace easy to replace...Nice to see an example of straps passing through slots in the leather.

Very interesting find.
Thanks for posting.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 9:53 am
by CT03
Awsome find. Looks like the preservation effort turned out well.

You never know what someone will loose intentionally or unintentionally down a latrine... Here in Alexandria, VA they found a whole musket in an old latrine.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:37 am
by Paladin74
I'm surprised the uh...enzymes in excrement didn't just disintegrate those pieces.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:30 am
by AEiric Orvender
This is awesome...do you perhaps have a link to the original article and pictures??

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:31 pm
by Russ Mitchell
Paladin74 wrote:I'm surprised the uh...enzymes in excrement didn't just disintegrate those pieces.
What it would have done is soften them to an extreme. Those enzymes are the primitive version of the modern bating process used to soften hides. The low degree of fungal damage is surprising, but perhaps the degree of urine-induced ammonia retarded it.

I consider this to be a bombshell. One typically sees replica attempts of hard leather OR softer leather with steel pieces beneath. Not hardened leather sandwiching a steel insert.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:41 pm
by Gregoire de Lyon
Russ Mitchell wrote: I consider this to be a bombshell. One typically sees replica attempts of hard leather OR softer leather with steel pieces beneath. Not hardened leather sandwiching a steel insert.
Russ - where did you get that the steel was sandwiched between two layers of leather? I didn't understand that from my reading.

Thanks!

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:42 pm
by Russ Mitchell
Oh.
Wait, I think you're right. That's a composite shot showing each side of each piece.
WELL! That makes more sense.... :lol:

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:34 pm
by RenJunkie
This makes me so happy I can barely stand it.

As I read the article it seemed to indicate the strips were alternating with rows of just rivets. I can't really tell from the photo. What it does look like, however is bazubands. Or something similar. I wish I had the image handy, I think from AAotMK, that shows Germans wearing bazu type arms from the mid-14th. And these are one piece, just like in the SCA ;)

I'm kinda shocked at how BIG those rivets are. Looks almost like the round studs from the leather bracers in an Iron Maiden video. These were apparently fairly gepimpt.

I must make something real close to these now. I wish it gave some idea of how thick the leather was.

Thanks!
Christopher

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:22 pm
by Albrechtthesilent
First, wicked cool. Glad they found them. And supremely happy they went to such lengths to preserve them. Maybe that's standard, but we (the unwashed masses) rarely get such preservation details.

I will say that I wish they'd not document guesses on the leather composition and construction methods.

Hopefully further study by other armor scholars will reveal more information, building on what is provided here.

Thank you very much for sharing.
Albrecht

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 12:18 am
by ushumgal
EXCELLENT find! I do wonder if the steel strips were riveted to the outside or the inside, and how wide they were originally. Can't really tell from the photo.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 4:57 am
by Baron Alcyoneus
It looks like there are parallel lines pressed into the leather, running besides some of the rows of rivets. The metal strips aren't much wider than the heads of the rivets. The only metal I see is a little bit around the back edge of the elbows. I suspect this survives because the rivets are spaced further apart, and the iron wasn't as readily "sacrificed".

http://www.engineersedge.com/galvanic_capatability.htm

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 9:30 am
by Oddvarr
I could see a soldier or, more likely, a minor noble accidently dropping these in the latrine and deciding it was not worth the trouble of digging them out. The soldier would have been punished, and therefore probably would go to the trouble to get them back and clean them off. The nobleman probably would not, and would procure another pair.

A buddy of mine went to a port-o-potty in Iraq with a 3/4" gear wrench in his coveralls...and came back without it! He fished it out with a magnet covered in a trash bag. It was henceforth called the "poop-wrench" and was never borrowed again .

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:36 am
by Sean Powell
I can see someone looking at rusty steel and moldy leather that doesn't fit anyone and saying. "Well it's not like we don't have a lot of cows and these havn't been fought in since my grandfathers day. I'll save the buckles and chuck them in the latrine."

Also wasn't the Calcais horde discovered in a well? Either thrown there to prevent them from being captured or maybe equally disposed of?

The Castle Heberde (spelling?) find was burried with rubble in the wall as 'fill' between the outer and inner layers of stacked block.

Seems we only find the stuff that wasn't cost-effective to get beaten back into plowshares.

Sean

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:45 am
by Gregoire de Lyon
More info about the find can be seen here:

http://arheo.ut.ee/theses/BA10_Pruus.pdf

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:55 am
by Swamp Stick
Practical jokes and pay back span the ages. I'm going to get Bob/my brother/that idiot who stole my girl. They will never find those vambraces now. Bwahahaha!

Or

If those "blankity blank blank" pieces of crap bite me one more time I'm gonna... Humm, well that was stupid, but I'm not going in after them.


700 years later: Eureka!!!! Look what I found!

Bjorn

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 11:09 am
by Swamp Stick
Gregoire de Lyon wrote:More info about the find can be seen here:

http://arheo.ut.ee/theses/BA10_Pruus.pdf
Oh I hate you! There is information about Rheinish Stoneware from Siegburg and Langerwehe in there. Now I'm going to have to translate it. Grumble grumble! :wink:

Thanks for the link.

Bjorn

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:21 pm
by Talbot
I think you will have to translate it yourself. I have corresponded with the author (Ain Mäesalu) several times over the years. He grew up under Soviet rule and speaks no English so there is little hope of a published full English version. However, you are welcome to share your translations with the class ;-)

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:33 pm
by Russ Mitchell
Anu Mand would translate it for us if I asked her very nicely. She's in Tallinn, let me see if I can get a hold of her.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:40 pm
by Swamp Stick
LOL, Danish and German are close enough that I can usually get a clue about the subject matter. Google translate is my friend after that. Provided I know enough about the subject to fill in the syntax snafus I tend to do okay and in this case I do know the subject pretty well. :D Occasionally I have to go from language X to German because the sentence structure is more compatible for the translating program. It just takes me a little longer to read is all.

If there is enough interesting material in the sections dealing with pottery for me to want to "keep" it for my archives, I'll cut and paste those pieces into a document and post them.

Bjorn

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2011 2:49 pm
by Cap'n Atli
It obviously can't be real; you photo-shopped it to give all the "leather fetishists" a thrill, didn't you. Next, you'll dash their hopes by revealing the fraud and snicker at their tears!


:wink:

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:03 am
by Baron Alcyoneus
Alexsandr Gladchenkov added a note this morning:

"Santa Claus has gone mad! He decided to do for us all gifts in one year!

"A colleague from Lithuania reported that this summer in Lithuania found rerebrace - from leather thickness of about 3 mm.
It was three metal strips placed between rows of rivets. In ancient times, the metal was removed, but traces of it are clearly visible.
Article to be published soon!"

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 10:44 pm
by RenJunkie
3mm? That's like only 9 oz, isn't it?

I would have thought it would be a shade thicker than that. And I'm still surprised by the idea of alternating strips of metal with rows of only rivets. Would this have a function beyond looks, or would the rivet-only rows help protect?

This is more exciting news. What's going on over in the Baltic that they're finding all this awesome leather?

Thanks!
Christopher

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:22 am
by Baron Alcyoneus
It is probably a bit colder there, and that slows down biological activity.

When they dug up the field from The Battle of Wisby (1361) in the early 20thC, they found a 3' thick section of "oily" soil where the bodies had dissolved, but not been fully absorbed in the intervening 550 or so years.

They opened the pit on about July 5, 1905. The main pit was a square about 13' on a side and had contained about 300 bodies.

Summer time, and the oily, oozy remains of 300 people exposed to oxygen- it smelled grand!

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:48 am
by Signo
For the conservation: I don't know the terrain composition, but bog is known for it's exceptional conservation qualities, mayba that terrain has similar conditions.

For the rows or rivets without metal strips: maybe those kept a colored canvas covering to protect metal from rust or at least keep the rust hidden.
Covered metal was quite normal back then, just look at wisby gauntlets, coat of plates , and so on.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:08 pm
by James B.
Interesting, did anyone else notice there is either another leather strip or metal one on the elbow edge?

It looks to be the same shape as the leather object in Purses in Pieces.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:15 pm
by Gregoire de Lyon
I don't see the detail that many of you seem to be seeing which indicates that the metal strips were between the rows of rivets. I would presume that the metal was wide enough to overlap slightly and that the rows of rivets were down the center of each strip - like on the cuffs of the Wisby gauntlets.

Can someone highlight what I am missing here?

Thanks,

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:43 pm
by Russ Mitchell
James -- I saw it, too. If that ridge married up to the other side, these may have been "one size fits most" with the metal forming a puckered-out edge.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:16 pm
by Tomburr
I saw that too. I would love to know all the details about these.

It makes me really want to build a set of splinted cuir bouilli.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 4:29 pm
by James B.
Gregoire de Lyon wrote:I don't see the detail that many of you seem to be seeing which indicates that the metal strips were between the rows of rivets.
I don't see that either; look more like the rivets held on the metal strips to me.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:17 pm
by RenJunkie
steel strips alternately with rows of rivets
It's in the text. I can't see it myself, which is where the confusion is for me.

Thanks!
Christopher

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:31 pm
by James B.
I see it is in the text but I don't see how they would attach and I do not see impressions in the leather.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:03 pm
by knitebee
James B. wrote:I see it is in the text but I don't see how they would attach and I do not see impressions in the leather.
alternating between metal strips with studs and row of just studs? That's what I see and fits with the text.

Re: Leather vambraces found in Estonia AND Lithuania!

Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:31 am
by James B.
That could be, every other row of studs had metal.