churburg style body armor?

[GuntherofOrkney]

Ok i am making myself a new tourney kit and was wondering if churburg breastplates were ever covered in leather. I wanna keep the rig light and strong so i want to go with aluminum but i dont want the upkeep and look of aluminum. I know people might just say what not make a brig then and i say i hate the wisby cops and the design of the churburg is optimal for performance and protection.

what i know about my kit is i am gonna have the flared edge knees and elbows with an openfaced bascinet with a chain drape,also gonna go with steel frontal greaves and dished vambraces. I am not super concerned about being period but i wanna look pretty close and still keep the weight down,with good protection and great performance.

Thanks for any help.

PS- i didnt really wanna go with 14th century but i love how comfortable the armor looks.

[PatternWeld]

Did you consider Corazinna?

[GuntherofOrkney]

yeah i considered a corazinna but i dont think the performance in the upper chest would be that great but its not ruled out. i think with some fudging of how the plates are made it might do well but i already made a brig that turned out bad. it just didnt fit well and didnt perform well,biggest failure of construction i have had in a very long time.

is a placard with a plated leather upper period?

[wcallen]

There are a lot of variables here, but the other pieces seem to be taking you more into the 1320's to 1340's.

During this period usually the body armour is covered in fabric or covered up by a piece of clothing so it is hard to be 100% certain of a lot.

Generally you should be using some form of coat of plates with this. There is no reason that it couldn't be made out of aluminum if you want to. The cover will hide the material of the plates anyway.

And just for fun - "Churburg" isn't a type of breastplate. They have lots and lots of breastplates. Ranging from the late (date in dispute exactly) 14th c. through the 17th c. I can assume you mean the 14th c. segmented breastplate that is a lone survivor. There is no reason you couldn't make a set of shaped plates that fit inside fabric that would have a somewhat similar profile but technically end up being a coat of plates.

Wade

[Konstantin the Red]

. . . considered a corazinna but i dont think the performance in the upper chest would be that great . . . already made a brig that turned out bad. it just didnt fit well and didnt perform well, biggest failure of construction i have had in a very long time.

In what way would a corrazina be deficient in the upper chest? It's a hard shell up there, is it not? And you know the solution to impaired shoulder mobility, right? They date to the turn of the fifteenth.

Hmm. How did the brig "just" not fit well? Too small/too big/brig parts in places there weren't Gunther parts...? In what way was its performance unsatisfactory? Heavy? Damaged easily?

Is a plac[k]ar[t] with a plated leather upper period?

To the middle fifteenth century, yeah. A solid upper breastplate, covered in garment-weight leather, belly plackart overlaying it and in the white.

[GuntherofOrkney]

well i kinda want to make something that has a period plate pattern in it. a corazinna would be to restrictive without alot of modifactions to the upper chest,though they do look cool. I am use to not really having anything that gets in the way in the upper chest no matter if leaning forward or to the side,i bend and move around alot when i fight.

[wcallen]

well i kinda want to make something that has a period plate pattern in it. a corazinna would be to restrictive without alot of modifactions to the upper chest,though they do look cool. I am use to not really having anything that gets in the way in the upper chest no matter if leaning forward or to the side,i bend and move around alot when i fight.

I think that means you haven't tried on armour that fits.

I know this is a goofy thing to say, but they could fight for their lives in this stuff. It couldn't be that restrictive if they could survive it.

I have worn breastplates that were not built correctly, and ones that were. The ones that are built correctly cover more and restrict movement less.

A correctly built 14th c. breastplate is not all that long in the waist. It also sits up off of the chest right where your muscles move so that you can move.

But if you insist on extra flexibility, you build a coat of plates that looks like the segmented breastplate in Churburg (loosely), cover it in fabric and you get the motion you wanted. You can even make the central plate narrower, or add some more plates. If that isn't good enough, you can split them horizontally too and get more movement as you bend.

I fight (when I fight) in a solid steel breastplate. It works.

Wade

As an aside, it appears that the real segmented breastplate in Churburg actually has rivets holding the central 3 plates together, so it doesn't move much.

[Sean Powell]

well i kinda want to make something that has a period plate pattern in it. a corazinna would be to restrictive without alot of modifactions to the upper chest,though they do look cool. I am use to not really having anything that gets in the way in the upper chest no matter if leaning forward or to the side,i bend and move around alot when i fight.

Hey Gunther, I'll send you a PM in just a few moments or you can check the clasified section.

IMHO a Corazzina is both more and less protective then a Churburg 13 but is almost always more comfortable and if done properly is not the least bit restrictive. It is possible that a Corazzina is the PERFECT body armor for the SCA.

A corazzina is split up the center and overlapped (as opposed to split twice and overlapped for the C-13) which means that the chest halves (lung-plates is a modern term that I have been requested to not use) can colapse towards each other allowing the arms free range of motion without bruising of the biceps and expand back out for maximum chest protection. Also the globose shape allows for ventilation and heat shedding of the upper torso on both. In both these aspects they are similar.

The Corazzina however should include full back coverage which means the spine and shoulder blades are protected from wrap-shots which the Churburg-13 is more of a body bracelet. Additionally the C-13 stops just below the floating ribs and the edge will dig in unless worn over maile. A corazzina on the other hand has a waist lame to prevent the breast-plate from digging in and then the faulds cover your belly hips and ass almost down to your groin (exact length determined by fashion). This means it provides more coverage over painful soft areas.

There is 1 surviving example of a 3 piece breastplate and 1 effigy that I know of (Conrad von Bichenbach). There are many pieces of corazzina plates (Calcis horde) and a few later intact suits plus dozzens of artwork to work from (and the Basford Dean Franken-suit)

Another benefit is that a fabric or leather covered corazzina can be made from a modern material (aluminum or kydex) to get a sporting weight savings (for us desk jockeys who play at the middle ages rather then daily training) without looking a-historical.

Finally there are a lot of ugly Churburg-13 examples out there and it's no fun to be part of the mass of unwashed heathens.

I've worn one Churburg-13 and retired it early when the straps wore out. I've worn 2 corazzinas through multiple repairs and plan on building a 3rd (and maybe 4th).

Well, that's my soap-box. Feel free to continue your discussion.

Sean

[GuntherofOrkney]

Ok it looks like i am getting the corazinna plates from sean and the more i look around the more i see corazinnas with what looks like more plates for better articulation. I will cut the chest inward some and add in gussets for mor flexibility. I think this is gonna work out. Thanks for the help guys i will see about posting some progress pics.

[Konstantin the Red]

Aha, finally something becomes clear: Gunther has never worn a breastplate that has sufficient arm cutouts, particularly if he was experimenting with a bp that was made for a much more barrel-chested man with more width between his shoulders than Gunther's frame has. They go mighty deep, baring most of either pectoral muscle. By the latest fifteenth these featured swiveling, crescent-shaped gussets, pivoting on a rivet under the armhole and moving on a sliding rivet up at the shoulder end of the breast, with the suspension straps attached to the gusset, not the main body of the breastplate, so gravity pulls the gusset back into position.

[GuntherofOrkney]

I have never worn a later period breastplate,been fighting as greek for the last 16yrs and have only made a couple. one was for costume and the other has the gussets which made it very maneuverable for the customer.
Cant see the gussets very well but they are there.
http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 0292_n.jpg