anyone have experience making scabbards?

[mordreth]

just for the hell of it
I trace out the blade + about 2/8 of an inch on a piece of 3/4 inch wood, and cut the basic shape
I rip the wood lengthwise
the "exerior" sides become the interior
I lay out a chiseling pattern for what will be the interior and go to work, at soem point in the process when I am getting a good interior I last the two sides in place, put a bit grease on the blade and slide it in and out. open the scabbard backup and chisel out any places where the brease stained the wood
for purists this is called "smoking in" and was done with carbon from a smokey candle.

When the interior is good drill a couple of 1/8 inch holes through the wood at the end and mouth of the scabbard. glue the pieces togeather, use dowels through the holes to stableize the scabbard when you clamp it.
The exterior can be shaped with planes, rasps, etc My scabbard is covered with canvas stretched into place and painted

The trick with ripping the plank, and turning the exterior into the interior is that any tendancy to warping is cancelled out

lay out the blade on

[Tom B.]

From what I have seen and read the leather is real thin. 2-3oz veg tanned would do. Stitching on many Anglo Saxon scabbards in the UK were grain edge saddle stitched. Most examples through out history are as gr ben said, overlap is saddle stitched, extra trimmed, edge polished. The Gaffer method is of X stitching is most popular with people making the scabbard themselves but no at all historical.

Would something like this 2-3 oz veg tanned leather from Tandy would be a good choice?
Any other good sources, on line preferable but not required?

I will probably be making a scabbard for a 37" type XVIIIb blade in the next month or two.

Thanks,
Tom

[Aussie Yeoman]

Go find a discarded leather couch and slice the back off it. Heaps of thin leather.

[James B.]

From what I have seen and read the leather is real thin. 2-3oz veg tanned would do. Stitching on many Anglo Saxon scabbards in the UK were grain edge saddle stitched. Most examples through out history are as gr ben said, overlap is saddle stitched, extra trimmed, edge polished. The Gaffer method is of X stitching is most popular with people making the scabbard themselves but no at all historical.

Would something like this 2-3 oz veg tanned leather from Tandy would be a good choice?
Any other good sources, on line preferable but not required?

I will probably be making a scabbard for a 37" type XVIIIb blade in the next month or two.

Thanks,
Tom

That is the ticket but holy smoke $188? I paid $70 for them from Seigels before the owner had a heart attack and decided to retire. http://www.brettunsvillage.com/leather/sides.htm scroll down a bit they have 3oz sides for $95 with free shipping, Tandy never ships for free so you would be looking at more like $200 in the end.

Go find a discarded leather couch and slice the back off it. Heaps of thin leather.

If you are looking for a more accurate leather stay away from stuff on couches they are chrome tanned vs veg. They will not tool or stretch if you want that level of detail in your work.

[Tom B.]

Just found 2-3 oz at Zack White $3.15 per sq ft.

Tom

[Kel Rekuta]

Its a little thick but that's a good price.

[Tom B.]

Its a little thick but that's a good price.

What thickness do you think is optimal?
Do you know any affordable sources?

Tom

[Kel Rekuta]

I find 1.5-2.0 oz (which never is exactly that thin) is easier to mold around the taper of the core. Unless you make the core almost rectangular, there is always some wrinkling from the mid point down to the tip. Leather sources tend to sell this for wallets and such. I would be surprised to find it as cheap as what you did though. Basically you want to look for calf or kip leather, not cowhide that has been split down. The coarser grain of an older animal's skin is noticeable when split so thin.

Frankly though, most people I make these for are perfectly satisfied with coverings made with drum dyed chrome cow upper. I've only had one commission for a living history quality sheath in some five years. Fair quality shoe upper leather is easy to find for $1.50-$2.50 a foot in many colours aside from black.

[Tom B.]

Frankly though, most people I make these for are perfectly satisfied with coverings made with drum dyed chrome cow upper. I've only had one commission for a living history quality sheath in some five years. Fair quality shoe upper leather is easy to find for $1.50-$2.50 a foot in many colours aside from black.

Thanks for your input.

I may cheat and go this route for my first attempt.

I will also be making the chape, belt and suspension kind of like this.

Any tips on belt and suspension leather thickness or chape construction?
I also need to find a source for the appropriate buckles and fittings.
In particular the hook and holder.

Thanks,
Tom

[gr ben]

Hi Enrico

most of the time I make the inner form of the chape in steel so i can work around that with brass or steel.
just fold the brass around the steel form cut it in the midle and braze it.

then you can make the cutouts and the point and braze them together.
then give them a good polishing.
and you are done.

[gr ben]

a few more photos

[Antonio]

Okay, in my 'cheat' mode again. I managed to get hold of some wood that would flex sufficiently for my purposes (flexing around dowelling slightly larger than the diameter of a blunt to permit me to sheath a blunted rapier/cut and thrust blade)- 0.8mm non-marine ply. A few things I'd do differently next time- thicker leather, so it didn't mark as badly, and didn't want to rip at the drop of a hat, and a different glue to fix the risers, which therefore aren't ideal (who'da thought superglue doesn't work on plywood unless there's a line of sharpie ink....). But all things considered, reasonably happy.

[Tom B.]

Looks good.
I just received my Albion regent a few days ago.
Next I hope to have the materials on hand to start on the scabbard by the end of next week.

[Antonio]

Thanks, Enrico! It's a solution to one of the SCA period fence things that bugs me- the swords look great. The hilts are gorgeous. The blades look increasingly good. Then there's a blob of contrasting electrical tape and a blunt! Okay, we need those things when we fence, but the rest of the time we shouldn't be seeing 'em! So. Scabbards GOOD! (But scabbards where you have to take your sword to bits before using them are a pain!)

[Maeryk]

So, one long chat with the guy in the sawmill:
No greenwood available
No veneer cut available.

2 test bits of pine planed down to 4mm, soaking in a boiling waterbath, and already starting to develop a natural curve after only 2 kettles worth.

Plan B will be buying a sheet of 4mm beech plywood, which he thinks may distort appropriately.

try berea hardwoods online.

[william]

Hi all,

I'm in the process of building a scabbard as well (for a 14C French sword replica from Arma Bohemia). My choice of materials:

2 slats of Maple "strong verneer" about 2 mm thick, left 3mm wider than the blade and lined with 2strips (hairy) goatskin, hair pointing towards the point

Linen straps soaked in hide glue to attach the two strips - I molded them around the blade and they curved nicely

3mm thick leather strips for the risers

1mm thin soft veg-tanned calfskin for the cover - stitching is half-done as of now

I could send some pics of the core but I'm sitting at the shore of the baltic sea right now baking in the mid-day sun ...


Cheers
William

[Maeryk]

Thank you for this thread! I have Knives and Scabbards on the way, as one of my projects will be a kidney pouch for my Son (now 19.. shudder), with integrated scabbard for his household knife (one of those long pointy toothpicks with the white handles), so reading the info here is already helping me with the planning situation.

[Tom B.]

Looks good.
I just received my Albion regent a few days ago.
Next I hope to have the materials on hand to start on the scabbard by the end of next week.

Materials ordered.
I hope to update this thread with some progress photos by the end of next week.

Tom

[James B.]

I knocked down some poplar slats to 1/8 and inch and they are easy to flex. Need to sit down ans start my scabbards. My reenactor ADD has kicked in; I need to do a 14th c scabbard for next year and I want to make this awesome scabbard based on one from Hedeby (10th c) that has 3 large diamond shaped cutouts with red leather under and green over with tiny brass rivets holding the leather cut outs down.

[Scott Martin]

Do you have pics of that scababard? I already do tiny brass rivets, and that sounds like it would be very pretty.

Scott Martin

[James B.]

Do you have pics of that scababard? I already do tiny brass rivets, and that sounds like it would be very pretty.

Only a drawing of what it looked like

[Tom B.]

The slats should be barely wider than the blade its self. I would say 1/16" (1.5mm) at most, and quite probably less. It's the cover that really holds the thing together. The slats need only be enough wider than the blade that edges can not cut the covering material. Take a minute to sketch out some cross sections on paper and you will see what I mean.

Just to make sure I understand you correctly.
The wood should only be 1/32 past the edge of the blade on each side, correct?
I guess I need to check this with the wood bent around the blade before I cut the final profile.

Could you elaborate on the linen wrapping a bit more ?
Spiral wrap with a thin strip?
Glue on top of the wrap or under?
What type of glue is best, what should be avoided?
(I have various wood glues and barge cement on hand)

Is the leather glued to the core?
Do I need to try and stretch the leather as I saddle stitch it or just keep it snug?
Should the leather be wettened at all, especially at a riser?

The sword blade needs to stay in the scabbard until everything is complete right?

Thanks,
Tom

[Mac]

The slats should be barely wider than the blade its self. I would say 1/16" (1.5mm) at most, and quite probably less. It's the cover that really holds the thing together. The slats need only be enough wider than the blade that edges can not cut the covering material. Take a minute to sketch out some cross sections on paper and you will see what I mean.

Just to make sure I understand you correctly.
The wood should only be 1/32 past the edge of the blade on each side, correct?
I guess I need to check this with the wood bent around the blade before I cut the final profile.

I guess when I wrote that, I was really thinking of 1/16" (or a bit less) per edge. Which is to say, the slats should be about 1/8" (or a bit less) wider than the blade.

Could you elaborate on the linen wrapping a bit more ?
Spiral wrap with a thin strip?
Glue on top of the wrap or under?
What type of glue is best, what should be avoided?
(I have various wood glues and barge cement on hand)

I think there is a lot of room for variation here, but I think I would avoid a spiral wrap. I did one that way once, and it was a bit heavy, and a bit or a pain in the ass to make smooth enough for the leather.

You might try a strip of fabric down each edge. This would give you the strength you need, but would leave a sort of "step" or discontinuity in the middle of each slat. You could fill these with another piece of fabric, or build them up with paper: so long as it is smooth before the "show" layer of leather or fabric.

I believe that hide glue and wheat paste are the traditional glues of the scabbard maker. I have used Titebond II, but it turns the fingers yellow......

Is the leather glued to the core?

Yes. The article in Diderot and D'alembert says "paste" for this.

Do I need to try and stretch the leather as I saddle stitch it or just keep it snug?
Should the leather be wettened at all, especially at a riser?

It's the glue that is really holding things together here. Indeed, it would not be wrong to omit the stitching in favor of a skived and glued joint.

The sword blade needs to stay in the scabbard until everything is complete right?

Certainly until the cover is on. You might want to remove it before you put the metal fittings in place, and then return it to supply the pressure to bed the covering around the fittings. (This last idea is my best guess about how those fittings with no obvious means of attachment are made to stay in place. )

Mac

[Tom B.]

Thanks Mac.
I thought that 1/32 per edge seemed a bit small.

Tom

[Antonio]

You really need only minimal contact between the two sides for the glue to hold on. The leather seems to do a lot of the work.

[SirSlaughter357]

right quick I have a question, how well do the leather straps from the sword belt retain there position on the scabbard in this picture (see attachment). Also is there anything special I'd have to do different to make a sword scabbard for this sword: http://www.albion-swords.com/swords/alb ... guerre.htm versus a regular sword which would have a thinner blade and sharp edge?

[Paladin74]

SirSlaughter, that looks similar to what the Inner Bailey puts out as their 'sword belt of the circle' - good for a range of scabbards but still be removeable. What you need depends on a few things- how tricked out you want it to be, how historically accurate or plausible it needs to be and ultimately, what you're willing to spend to get it there. Making it yourself can be a much more cost-effective way of doing things, but as I just found out from a friend, not so much if you're not able to do all the work yourself. He built his scabbard from scratch, but sent it out to get the leather work done and when it was all finished, the cost was not much less than a Christian Fletcher rig.

[Tom B.]

I started a thread to show my progress here.