Close Helm / Sallets by Helmschmied - Additional info/photos

[Tom B.]

Also has the tail been trimmed?
Looking at Golls photos shown above.
The holes for mounting the edge decoration are missing near the point of the tail.

[Mac]

I don't think much (if any) has been lost to trimming. As near as I can tell, this is where the holes either are, or should be. The ones in the front corners will have been lost to rust, and the one at the point got welded up in the process of of filling in.



Mac

[Tom B.]

I don't think much (if any) has been lost to trimming. As near as I can tell, this is where the holes either are, or should be. The ones in the front corners will have been lost to rust, and the one at the point got welded up in the process of of filling in.

After my last post I spent some more time looking at Goll's photos zoomed in.
I concur with your assessment of the tail and trim mounting hole there.

I guess in my opinion the biggest issue is with the line of the sallet edge just below the latch and same area on the other side.

Currently it looks like this: (sallet bottom edge well below visor bottom edge)


I think it should be more like this: (visor bottom edge and sallet bottom edge matching)

[Tom B.]

I think in this photo you can see where the "repair" departs from the flow of the sallet edge.
You also can better see the repair and existing holes at the tail

Click on photo to go to hi resolution zoomable image

[Mac]

You are quite right about those repairs at the corners. They stick out below the visor in a sort of obnoxious way. I bet I could fix that in about three minutes if they would let me.

Mac

[Tom B.]

This sort of thing really makes you wonder about how many other objects have been monkeyed with.

As Wade told me a cople of days ago "it would have been easy to leave it alone".
The helmet appeared to be in pretty good shape from the one 1920 Instambul photo.
It would still have made a great display.

[Mac]

Here's a Chalcis vambrace that looks like it was in mid-Bashfordization when the welder was called away to some other project. http://metmuseum.org/collection/the-col ... nformation



The rust through has been regularized and one repair plate has been welded in. I hope the plate-donor was nothing we will regret the loss of....

Mac

[wcallen]

I was sort of under the impression that the Bashforization of objects was being done with a specific purpose, like to get something on display. This vambrace almost gives the impression that they were just sort of going around fixing things for the fun of it. Maybe he was going to piece together another early 15th c. harness from bits.

I know that it was likely somewhat destructive too, and I don't know how much they tossed away when they did it, but I think I like the way the Tower did things - at least a little better. At least they didn't cut old stuff up to make patches. Instead they replaced lost (I don't know how damaged something had to be to count as "lost") pieces with obviously modern metal. Several of the pieces in "Armour from the Tower of London" show this and several of their early pieces on display show it as well. I ended up with a piece that they did this way:

http://www.allenantiques.com/A-186.html

You can see the old pieces and the new pieces. No welding involved. It would be nice to know how much of the "missing" pieces might have survived at the moment they were replaced. And it would be nice if they had kept them with the pieces afterward. But life isn't perfect. I wonder if they have records in the RA of the pieces they fixed? Hmmm.

Wade

[wcallen]

Since we are talking about Bashfordization...

I found this knee labeled as "15th c. and later" :

http://metmuseum.org/collection/the-col ... nformation

I think that they say this because the wing is old and the whole cop was added. Am I seeing the picture correctly? That is a pretty aggressive restoration.

Wade

[Tom B.]

Since we are talking about Bashfordization...

I found this knee labeled as "15th c. and later" :

http://metmuseum.org/collection/the-col ... nformation

I think that they say this because the wing is old and the whole cop was added. Am I seeing the picture correctly? That is a pretty aggressive restoration.

Wade

They are calling those a pair

[Gruber]

Looks like that knee has a bad case of camel toe.

[Tom B.]

Back to the original subject
Take a look at the PDFs from Goll's thesis for more photos:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7VQpD ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7VQpD ... sp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7VQpD ... sp=sharing

[Barbanegra]

Peter Polyak of Kretchett Armoury, Moscow, Russia, has made several of these helmets:







st45 steel, 2-2.5mm thick.

[Tom B.]

Here are some very neat photos of one lucky guy wearing the Emperor's hat
Dierk Hagedorn was gracious enough to share these photos of his visit to the KHM.

Note: There is no lining present so it sits a bit awkwardly on his head.





During the same visit I think he was also able to try on the sallet from A62 and maybe a couple of other items.

[Tom B.]

The Met has added some more nice high resolution images of the close sallet they have:

http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the ... 600&pos=21

[Gustovic]

I didn't know where to post these, so there you go.

[Tom B.]

I didn't know where to post these, so there you go.

Take a look here
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=178933