putting acamale or aventain on an ashcraft baker norman helm

[ociennede]

Ok, ive read some of the messages on making these. I have access to butted mail and was wondering if anyone can give me the short and sweet on hanging chainmail on this type of helmet. The AB helm is not the prettiest and id like to cover the bargrill to just below my nose. I plan to add a nasal and mabe some spangens of lighter metal to make it appear more Hiberno norse. the grill is welded on and I would prefer to leave it that way for now, unless there is a simple answer to remove it and possible rivet/ weld it to the inside of the cheek plates. any help would be great.

[Konstantin the Red]

On an Ashcraft type, the history-mavens tend to stop worrying about authenticity, as Ashcraft (formerly Ashcraft/Baker) has always leaned to durability plus SCA-legal coverage, period design coming a distant second. Which gives a certain liberty to it all. Which of their helm(et)s are you using -- would it be the spangen-less Spangen, or did you prefer the Conical next to it? The 12ga skull options are more dent resistant.

The general method is to attach a drape-strap or camail-strap around the helm. This is usually leather, but it could be of light sheet metal too. Oval holes in the lower edge to take the butted links; oval holes allow the links to lie naturally on the helm body. Fasten the band with rivets to the helm body, zip the drape onto it. Hang the band at the edge of the skull, all the way round the slat back of the hat.

You may as well lightly line your mail drape too, covering everything but your bargrill -- leave the lining completely off of there for good breathing. This lining should be thin so you don't have any trouble with blow acknowledgement. It's there to keep hits from warping your butted links too much and will go down and out as far as the edge of your mail drape. It may fasten to the leather camail strap either of a couple of ways -- depends which stitch you want to use, but you'll sew such a liner into place on your band: either whip stitch round and round along its edge through the holes for the links, or a running stitch or saddle stitch in a straight line above or below these holes, depending on where you left some room, as either location will work. If you go with this, sew the liner on the strap first, then attach the strap to the helm -- far easier to sew. The whip-stitch method through the holes, it won't matter so much as you can do it on the helm or off it -- though it's also more obvious, with considerably more thread or artificial sinew exposed in the stitching. As effective, but cruder in the craftsmanship, and I don't think it's any faster either -- not once you've got your experience in on the saddle stitch. Search "saddle stitch" onsite for a link to a vid showing the method. Well, that's a big block of text on an option.

Around to the bargrill: you can run occasional stitches or fine wire to hold your mail drape on whichever bar in your bargrill you'd like, just fastening it directly. Doesn't necessarily need to be the topmost linkrow you have there, either -- and you can shape some cutout from the front of the drape if you like, for more eyehole and less drape in the way. Filing a shallow notch into the bar on its inside helps hold the thread/sinew/fine wire in place so nothing slides around without really getting hit hard. In which case you might expect things to wander a little and you might be fixing a dent in the grill anyway. Pound it back into shape from inside. If necessary, use a driftpin to deliver the force to the bar, hammering on the end of the driftpin out where there's room to swing.

I'm talking about doing it that way so as to make wiring the front of the drape/ventail (rightly called; you're ventilating through it (that doesn't happen with a bascinet-type camail)) more hidden from view than running a spiral of wire to hold the drape upon a bar -- looks slicker and craftier. And you've got more than one bar to use, so you can put stitches within the body of the mail drape too. Very strong against hits, which won't be all that frequent, but occasionally happen.

Leave the bargrill itself as is; the work fiddling around with it is more trouble than its benefits are worth. This is a get-em-fielded starter hat; everybody knows it. I'd've said different if you'd gone for the removable grill types. Those you've got more scope, and more need, to get fancy -- rather more authentic -- with.

Search on "camail" "aventail" and "mail/maille drape" -- those should pull up absolutely everything we've got for tips & tricks.

[losthelm]

For the most part your going to attach the chainmail to a piece of leather then attach the leather to the helm with vervells of some type.
This makes remove for Repair a lot easier, the vervelles can be a little expencive throgh windrose armoury.
You can use cotter pins, or swivel posts and pein them like rivets.
Talbot has some made in budget friendly aluminum that you can find vie the search bar.

[Konstantin the Red]

I talk about using vervelles a lot myself -- but not on an Ashcraft in the style of a type that never had them. This time, this helmet, I say rivets.

Using vervelles has the advantage of the drape being demountable, and the disadvantage of compounding the inauthenticities of the helm already. Of the vervelle options, I'd go with using large cotter pins with this hat.

But as much as we gripe, the thing'll still serve -- and protect.

[ociennede]

thank you for the info Konstantin and losthelm. this at least will allow me to practice making them for helmets of the similar type for my kit later (spangen). the AB helmet is his norman one with cheek plates not the plain top one.

[Konstantin the Red]

About the most exquisite mail-drape installation we ever saw for a spangen had its drape suspension strap -- can't remember if it was leather or another piece of metal -- inserted between the helmet skull and slatback array, integral to the helmet as it was constructed. The rivets held everything there together. Very low profile for the attachment of the mail. But this neat-o method was this way from the very beginning -- best you can do is get close. Still plenty okay to fight in, with added style. A good thing all round, as getting the experience is good for your abilities.