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Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:46 am
by Tom B.
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:48 am
by Tom B.
Xtracted wrote:So, where is my copy of this interesting book?
Take a look at this thread
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 12:16 pm
by Tom B.
Mac wrote:The more I look at the big gold plate in the image, the less certain I become about it. I might be a pauldron reenforce with a haute piece.... but then again, perhaps that tall part is intended to cover the chin. I can't convince myself that I understand what the artist was trying to show us.
Mac
Here are zoomed in pics of the item in question from image #44 and a pauldron reenforce from image #100.
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Tue May 20, 2014 1:45 pm
by InsaneIrish
That looks almost identical to the one on .369 Image 81. Upper right hand corner.
Would Grand guards have been padded with fulled felt/wool?
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:07 am
by Tom B.
Koloman Colman
(German, Augsburg, 1473–1532)
Armorer: Helmet and reinforcing pieces by Kolman Helmschmid (German, Augsburg, 1471–1532)
Date: ca. 1510–20
Culture: German, Augsburg
Medium: Etched steel
Classification: Armor for Man-1/2 Armor
Credit Line: Bashford Dean Memorial Collection, Bequest of Bashford Dean, 1928
Accession Number: 29.150.6
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:28 am
by Tom B.
(Click on image to open larger version)
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:44 am
by Tom B.
Here is image #12
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Thu May 22, 2014 11:45 am
by Tom B.
InsaneIrish wrote:That looks almost identical to the one on .369 Image 81. Upper right hand corner.
Would Grand guards have been padded with fulled felt/wool?
Detail from Image #81
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Tue May 27, 2014 7:24 am
by Tom B.
My keen interest in the possible use of a grand guard with the war harness is that it could possibly solve many of the issues with jousting in a sallet.
Andreas Wenzel (well know jouster in Europe) proposes that this item is just an early version of the targe like Maximilian's now at Leeds.
http://www.royalarmouries.org/visit-us/ ... image/1331
http://www.royalarmouries.org/visit-us/ ... war-armour
http://www.youtube.com/v/aSY3Hb0Kupg
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:52 am
by Ernst
Tom,
Perhaps the little piece is, in fact, a chin reinforce. See the Schwäbisch Gmünd bevor.
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=26121
Photo from Oliver Schmid
http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/download.php?id=40469
Photo from Blaz Berlac
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k26/B ... iedner.jpg
And probably taken from Mann
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 6:35 pm
by Baron Alcyoneus
Christian Wiedner wrote:Oh there is nothing special.
Here is the bracket
P1050418.JPG
and here the attached bevor.
P1050413.JPG
I have to say this was a later addition and there is no locking function, it is just to keep the gorget plate down.
I don't have the book, so I can't provide a picture at the moment, but in the Vienna Catalogs there are a couple harnesses from Braunschweig, iirc, that have such posts on the BP and the bevor fit onto them, with a pin locking them in place.
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:19 pm
by Baron Alcyoneus
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:02 pm
by Tom B.
While rereading Dr. Terjanian's article I noticed that he says "which seems to be a grandguard" in reference to the item in image #44.
In a footnote he goes on to say "This Piece compares closely in form and shading to the grandguard at the top right of folio n66r (image 81)."
Here are zoomed in pics of the item in question from image #44
Detail from Image #81
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 2:17 pm
by Tom B.
My interest in this thread has been rekindled due to some of the info we are talking about in this other thread
A62, made for Archduke Sigismund or Emperor Maximilian?
It seems that Matthias Pfaffenbichler, as well as others, think that the A62 harness may in fact be part of a protogarniture (thanks to James Arlen Gillaspie for coining the term) made by Helmschmid for Emperor Maximilian. He points to these images from the Thun Sketchbook as showing parts of this protogarnature.
Re: Thun Sketchbook Image #44 discussion
Posted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:43 pm
by Tom B.
In light of the images we have been finding in
Mac's Gothic Codpiece thread maybe Mart was right.
Tom B. wrote:Ernst wrote:2.What is the piece above and right of the bevor?
Or below the back and breastplate? Forming the question in one way might lead one to think it's a chin cup, formed the other way it might be another type of cup, a codpiece.
Good point.
Here is the best possible zoomed version of that item.
We have reached the limit of the printed picture.
