I think the drawing looks good, i'm just trying to reconcile the hight of the drawing (11.6") with the museum measurements (10.5") and my actual piece (10.25"-10.5"ish). A real head scratcher, but maybe im overthinking itJames Arlen Gillaspie wrote:It is a common misconception that helmet skulls should be equidistant from the head of the wearer. They tend to have a lot of crush space in the top, something missing in most modern pieces. I don't see anything wrong with your drawing.
Experimental helmet forging
Re: Experimental helmet forging
Re: Experimental helmet forging
I think that the neck should be cut up a bit higher in back. This helmet is very round in back. That means that is will end up close to your neck. This is why the original is cut up high in back.
The neck should end up on a plane. That is to way, it should sit on a table and not really rock.
The cheeks do not seem too short to me. I expect this type of helmet to just cover your jaw line.... kind of.. sort of. We moderns always try to fudge in more jaw coverage than our ancestors did.
What I'd like to see in this front view is for the widest point of the helmet to be at or just above the widest point of your head. As it is now, the wide place is just about at the tops of your ears. The wide place of the human skull is about two fingers above that.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Experimental helmet forging
Yeah, it looks weird as it is now. I was just waiting to see if I wanted to draw the cheeks out a bit more before I do more trimmingMac wrote: I think that the neck should be cut up a bit higher in back.
That's a good note. After my last post I double checked the Royal armouries' width measurment against my helmet, and found mine came out too narrow. So adding more volume there will be a good time to raise the height of the widest pointMac wrote: What I'd like to see in this front view is for the widest point of the helmet to be at or just above the widest point of your head. As it is now, the wide place is just about at the tops of your ears. The wide place of the human skull is about two fingers above that.
Re: Experimental helmet forging
Well, after some years I've decided to resurrect this thread.
So I haven't had the time to work on armour in quite some time, but about a year ago I talked a few of my friends into forming a band. We meet every couple of weeks (if we're lucky) and get a few hours of hammering in.
Our mandate is to learn stretch raising as a team. First the basic concept and techniques, and hopefully in time we'll be able to do some experiments in different materials. Perhaps first modern wrought iron, and eventually bloom iron or steel and maybe even hearth steel.
We started off making tools, as is tradition
The double ended long neck hammer was based on that one illumination, but our version didn't really come out right. Too heavy, faces not quite a useful shape. Oh well. We ended up making 3 dog legs, between 5-8 lbs that work quite well. 8 is really too heavy for what we're doing, but works fine. Probably we'll make at least one more between 5-6lbs.
I also made a couple new pairs of tongs
So I haven't had the time to work on armour in quite some time, but about a year ago I talked a few of my friends into forming a band. We meet every couple of weeks (if we're lucky) and get a few hours of hammering in.
Our mandate is to learn stretch raising as a team. First the basic concept and techniques, and hopefully in time we'll be able to do some experiments in different materials. Perhaps first modern wrought iron, and eventually bloom iron or steel and maybe even hearth steel.
We started off making tools, as is tradition
The double ended long neck hammer was based on that one illumination, but our version didn't really come out right. Too heavy, faces not quite a useful shape. Oh well. We ended up making 3 dog legs, between 5-8 lbs that work quite well. 8 is really too heavy for what we're doing, but works fine. Probably we'll make at least one more between 5-6lbs.
I also made a couple new pairs of tongs
Last edited by Tableau on Sat Jan 20, 2024 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Experimental helmet forging
For our first bucket, we went for a conical helm.
Starting from a disk of 1/2" plate about 5 3/8" x 7 3/4" at about 5 - 5.2 lbs
My notes aren't great but squinting at this photo tells me the flat was drawn out to about 10.5" x 8.5"
The final volume on this took about 3 sessions, probably about 9 hours
After that, I did some angle raising and some more stretch raising on my own to dial in the shape
it's currently sitting at about 3.7lbs
I wanted to make a slightly deeper conical helm, but I didn't quite have enough depth... as is tradition. I had a thin spot near the point which I pushed just a bit too far and cracked, but I put a little sneaky forge braze in there, so hopefully it wont be too noticeable.
I'm thinking I might cheat on this one and add a band along the lower edge with a nasal to cheat my height back up a little bit. I know its' not what our extant examples typically show, but I could choose to interpret it as what this guy has going on:https://armourinart.com/213/346
Starting from a disk of 1/2" plate about 5 3/8" x 7 3/4" at about 5 - 5.2 lbs
My notes aren't great but squinting at this photo tells me the flat was drawn out to about 10.5" x 8.5"
The final volume on this took about 3 sessions, probably about 9 hours
After that, I did some angle raising and some more stretch raising on my own to dial in the shape
it's currently sitting at about 3.7lbs
I wanted to make a slightly deeper conical helm, but I didn't quite have enough depth... as is tradition. I had a thin spot near the point which I pushed just a bit too far and cracked, but I put a little sneaky forge braze in there, so hopefully it wont be too noticeable.
I'm thinking I might cheat on this one and add a band along the lower edge with a nasal to cheat my height back up a little bit. I know its' not what our extant examples typically show, but I could choose to interpret it as what this guy has going on:https://armourinart.com/213/346
Last edited by Tableau on Sat Jan 20, 2024 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Experimental helmet forging
just for a visual for those who haven't seen on facebook or instagram:
Last edited by Tableau on Sat Jan 20, 2024 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Experimental helmet forging
For some reason, the images are not showing up
When I copy the image URL and try to go there, I get an image-shaped gray rectangle with a barred circle in it. I wonder if your security or sharing settings need to be changed. Failing that, perhaps someone who knows more than me will chime in.
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
- Kristoffer
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1697
- Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Ostersund - Sweden
- Contact:
Re: Experimental helmet forging
It looks like Tableau has not put the images in a shared google images folder.
Kristoffer Metsälä
Re: Experimental helmet forging
Dammit! I thought I had finally cracked it. How about now?
- Kristoffer
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1697
- Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2000 1:01 am
- Location: Ostersund - Sweden
- Contact:
Re: Experimental helmet forging
This is what I do to get google image pictures to work:
I move the pictures to a shared folder, then go to the folder, open first picture, right click and "open in new window", then copy the URL from the new window. That URL I can then post here.
Repeat for each picture.
I move the pictures to a shared folder, then go to the folder, open first picture, right click and "open in new window", then copy the URL from the new window. That URL I can then post here.
Repeat for each picture.
Kristoffer Metsälä
Re: Experimental helmet forging
Alright. I did that and this time I checked on an incognito window, so hopefully it works now
Re: Experimental helmet forging
Whatever you did, the pics are working now!
Great project!
Mac
Great project!
Mac
Robert MacPherson
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
The craftsmen of old had their secrets, and those secrets died with them. We are not the better for that, and neither are they.
http://www.lightlink.com/armory/
http://www.billyandcharlie.com
https://www.facebook.com/BillyAndCharlie
Re: Experimental helmet forging
I've seen video clips of the striking. How great that you have a regular team, it really shows!
-Adair
-Adair