Fine-woven Neck Chainmail

[AWC]

Does anyone have any idea on the construction of tightly woven neck chainmail, as seen in the picture? I mean regular chainmail is a pain in the ass already... making this must be un-godly.

[Ernst]

Same pattern, done one ring at a time. The riveting usually keeps the ring from rotating in place.

[losthelm]

To me this mail standard appears to be constructed from two different sized links.
Chainmail in general is labor intensive its hard to tell if te links are rivited or what kind of rivets where used.
The smaller geometric pannels are easier to manipulate as you work and tailor the piece before joining together.
Being smaller link and a more detailed piece we can assume its for someone with more resources and likely later construction.
Though more information should be available from the museum.

[Ernst]

It's Wallace A9 for those interested.
http://wallacelive.wallacecollection.or ... detailView

Mail standard
Unknown Artist / Maker

late 15th century
Iron or steel and copper alloy
Length: 73.7 cm
Weight: 0.85 kg
A9

Regarding the collar rings (bolding mine):

Link thickness is the one aspect that differentiates
them (0.040”, 1.01mm for A7 and 0.035”,
0.88mm for A9). The wire used in their manufacture
is semi-round in cross section. Marks
caused during the drawing process are readily
discernable. Each link has been closed with a
wedge shaped rivet and peened with setting
tongs. The rivet heads slope slightly to the right
(Figure 23).

TMRS Fig.23 -Schmid.jpg (29.71 KiB) Viewed 910 times

Erik also notes the mantle as likely being of different workmanship, due not only to the differing size and shape of the rings, but also the lower quality of the riveting. I suspect that the collar was made in a separate shop specializing in collars.

Attaching straps and buckles to the back of the collar must have been an interesting challenge!

[AWC]

A real challenge indeed! Thank you so much Ernst for the info and added pictures. Am I understanding correctly, that A7 is referring to the bigger rivets, and A9 the smaller?

[wcallen]

Use of various styles of rings in the same garment is yet another one of the things we see very commonly in authentic mail and very rarely (if ever) in modern mail.

The small sample I own shows that it was relatively normal to have heavier, thicker rings in the body of a shirt and thinner rings in the skirt and sleeves. It isn't something that is always obvious, because they seem willing to use a few sizes/thicknesses.

Collars are the most obvious case of this difference, and the one that is most visible.

If you want some annoying mail to make (like these collars) - the collar on my partial shirt -

http://www.allenantiques.com/images/M-1 ... detail.jpg

These shirts both have varying size rings in them:
http://www.allenantiques.com/M-14.html
http://www.allenantiques.com/M-1.html

Wade

[Sam O.]

A bit late to the thread, but does anyone know the inner diameters for the two ring sizes? I've always liked this piece and wanted to make my own version of it.

Any info would be appreciated.

[Ernst]

Erik Schmid gives the i.d. for the rings of the neck of Wallace A9 as 3.29mm/0.13" and the larger rings of the mantle as 5mm/0.197". The wire in the collar is roundish, while the mantle links are flat.

[Konstantin the Red]

Challenge? Tie 'em in, using artificial sinew at full width, leather thongs or swallowtail strap-ends (cut as narrow as fetticini) put through the mail. Just the thing that would rot and fall away with the centuries. Do a tidy job tying them in and manuscript miniatures of you couldn't give a clue, hardly, of how straps and buckles might be secured to your mail-standard.

That is if they weren't simply laced together and tied. I guess it was simply convenience of production (hence expense) that did not have these joined by mail links low down on their frills and the whole popped on over the head and closed up, not wrapped on like a celluloid collar.

Seems like a pullover collar would be inherently rather more defensive over the vitals and spine; yet they do this open construction in a wide V shape.

[Sam O.]

Erik Schmid gives the i.d. for the rings of the neck of Wallace A9 as 3.29mm/0.13" and the larger rings of the mantle as 5mm/0.197". The wire in the collar is roundish, while the mantle links are flat.

Thank you Ernst.

I wish I could say I'd be making it relatively accurately (planning on using butted maille for one thing), but I like the idea of adding a bit of leather and making it as a pullover with laces like Konstantin says.

Still need to try making some riveted stuff though...