Leather armour in art? (brown with metal strips & rivets)

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Anyone know where this is from? The fellow behind the guy who's been cut around here is apparently wearing a full harness of this "brown with brass rivets" stuff:

http://i.imgur.com/dxMozQb.jpg?2

[Mac]

He's from Memling's St. Ursula reliquary.



Mac

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Thanks! There's another fellow wearing it there, too.

[Mac]

Here's another one.



They seem to show up a lot in Resurrections and other Biblical and historical contexts. I wonder what that tells us. Did anyone ever really wear armor like this, or is it just an artistic convention to let us know that it was long ago and far away? The problem is, of course, that very little art was intended to specifically show contemporary events. For the most part, all we get to see is in Bibles and Histories. Thus we go round and round.

If someone has already said this earlier in the thread, please accept my apologies for not re-reading it all before posting.

Mac

[Halberds]

Jolly good thread. Thanks for all the great pics.

[Gerhard von Liebau]

G'morning! It's been a while since I posted... Suddenly back in the mood and I ran across a couple of images I don't think we've shared here yet. Sadly, they were sourced through pinterest to a site I cannot read, and another unknown site... So I don't have any information about them. Here's the first website (a Russian reenactment page):

http://mmkhraniteli.ucoz.com/

And this is the image that's hidden somewhere in there:



The second image (too large to host here):

https://pp.userapi.com/c621523/v6215232 ... jPIWeg.jpg

[Mac]

The second image (too large to host here):

https://pp.userapi.com/c621523/v6215232 ... jPIWeg.jpg

I pinned it to my "belt details" board and let Pinterest do the resizing.



He's also now on my (secrete) board of "Pig nosed tormentors of Christ". They are, strangely enough, a stock character. That board may go public when I have enough of them to make a splash.

Mac

[Tom B.]

G'morning! It's been a while since I posted... Suddenly back in the mood and I ran across a couple of images I don't think we've shared here yet. Sadly, they were sourced through pinterest to a site I cannot read, and another unknown site... So I don't have any information about them. Here's the first website (a Russian reenactment page):

http://mmkhraniteli.ucoz.com/

The first image is from the Met's Collection
(click on hot linked text to open the Met's page with more info and click on the images to open higher resolution versions)

Saint Reparata before the Emperor Decius

Artist:Bernardo Daddi (Italian, Florence (?) ca. 1290–1348 Florence)
Date:ca. 1338–40
Medium:Tempera on wood
Dimensions:Overall 12 3/4 x 16 in. (32.4 x 40.6 cm); painted surface 10 1/2 x 13 7/8 in. (26.7 x 35.2 cm)
Classification:Paintings
Credit Line:Maitland F. Griggs Collection, Bequest of Maitland F. Griggs, 1943
Accession Number:43.98.3



There are also two others at the Met from the same series:

Saint Reparata Being Prepared for Execution

Artist:Bernardo Daddi (Italian, Florence (?) ca. 1290–1348 Florence)
Medium:Tempera on wood, gold ground
Dimensions:9 5/8 x 13 5/8 in. (24.4 x 34.6 cm)
Classification:Paintings
Credit Line:Maitland F. Griggs Collection, Bequest of Maitland F. Griggs, 1943
Accession Number:43.98.4



and

Saint Reparata Tortured with Red-Hot Irons

Artist:Bernardo Daddi (Italian, Florence (?) ca. 1290–1348 Florence)
Medium:Tempera on wood, gold ground (tooled pattern added possibly in the late nineteenth century)
Dimensions:13 x 16 1/2 in. (33 x 41.9 cm)
Classification:Paintings
Credit Line:Bequest of George Blumenthal, 1941
Accession Number:41.190.15

[Gerhard von Liebau]

Thank you Mac and Tom! I'm really glad to see that the first image I posted is probably from early-mid 14th century Italy... Fits right in as evidence for a project that's in the pipeline.

-Gerhard

[Tom B.]

I just stumbled across this nice cropped image on the ever enigmatic Russian Social Media site VK.com
There never are any references.
It must be a 15th century crucifixion scene, these are they guys gambling for christ's clothes.

[Tom B.]

While I am posting here is the VK Terra Teutonica Album for Leather armour.

There are a real mixture of images in there, modern reproductions, effigies, paintings, and many others.
Some are very very good sources but you will have to track down the source yourself.

[Tom B.]

Found it!
c. 1455-1460. Tempera, stucco reliefs and gold leaf on wood. 214,4 x 135,8 x 6,5 cm. Museu Nacional d'Art de Catalunya, Barcelona. 037756-000.

Calvary by Lluís Ribes Mateu, on Flickr

I just stumbled across this nice cropped image on the ever enigmatic Russian Social Media site VK.com
There never are any references.
It must be a 15th century crucifixion scene, these are they guys gambling for christ's clothes.

[Franchi]

Early in this thread there was discussion on the effectiveness of leather armor and it was discussed that the metal available may not have been significantly more effective at the time, a good point.

To add to that it is important to remember that the weapons of the day were also made of metals inferior to the wonder metals we have today and that the edges on said swords were not as keen as some might think.

Bear in mind that half swording was a common technique and that it is mentioned in fighting manuals to shift from a slice/cut (not a chop but a pushing of the sharp edge to cut) to a half sword technique as well as to use the pommel and cross guard as an improvised mace with the gauntleted/gloved and bare hand, modern swordsman and woman have proven that you can indeed use these techniques bare handed. This would be rather dangerous if the blades were super sharp also very sharp blades with modern edge geometry made without our modern wonder metals with there incredible by ancient standard consistencies would chip like mad when used in edge on edge combat.

So leather armor with splinting was likely decently effective against slashes and cuts. If you have ever tried to push an awl into heavy leather you will understand that it could have provided at least some protection from thrusting. It would also have an advantage on metal in thrusting in that it is not ridged, so it would give, and your body would give a little and a LOT of force would be required to actually punch into it with nothing completely solid behind it.

Also keep in mind the ease of manufacture and availability of the two materials, every cow has a hide, not all locations have an iron mine. I would argue that availability aside it was a ton less work to go from dead cow>leather armor than from Iron ore>metal armor meaning leather armor was likely a hell of a lot cheaper. You couldn't just walk into your local welding shop back in 1200 AD and buy a sheet of 16 gauge steel much less have it cut to shapes for you! Ingots had to be cast, hammered into sheet and shaped.

Sometimes we allow ourselves to forget these factors when discussing these sorts of things.