Wrought Iron - for armouring?

[valdred]

The past few years, I've gotten progressively curious as to whether or not it would be worth experimenting with wrought iron for armouring. Is there any benefit in regards to malleability vs a lower mild steel? Perhaps the composition would yield some interesting key differences in certain operations?

Anyone have any consistent experience with it - in regards to armouring?

[James Arlen Gillaspie]

The biggest problem is finding/making sheet or even plate that is refined enough. It changes how you work it; it doesn't air stretch worth a hoot, unlike modern 'mild steel', so you have to do a lot more of the work hot, 'dishing' it by what Mac has christened 'squashing' but which I call 'anvil raising', which is to say beating it with crown faced hammers against a flat anvil, starting with thicker material than you will wind up with. Its most interesting characteristic is that it is both more and less prone to cracking; its composition makes it more brittle but its laminated structure inhibits crack propagation through all its layers, which is how projectiles make their way through metal (projectile starts a crack and the crack tears wide enough to allow the projectile to enter). The projectile has to start a crack for every layer it goes through. Also, it means that even though the piece has a crack, it takes a lot longer to propagate, making cracks less a threat to a piece's functional integrity.

[Thomas Powers]

wrought iron comes in many grades and the easiest ones to identify in the scrap stream are the worst ones to work with; though you can refine them by multiple folding and welding cycles. One thing with wrought iron is that it like to be worked at temperatures where mild steel would be burning and can fray out at cooler temps as it's actually a composite material. Also on the plus side is that at those high temps it's very soft under the hammer.

Where are you at I still have a ton or so of the Byers bidirectional rolled plate from the old Ohio Penitentiary.

[Cap'n Atli]

I'll second Master Thomas on the difficulties of knowing what grade you have. Some of the stuff I've worked from salvage has been wonderful, and some of it has been the equivalent of "muck bar" (the lowest grade).

One trick I learned from Peter Ross, who was the chief smith at Williamsburg, is that you have to work it "square." Glancing lateral blows tends to bring out the fibrous structure. Hit it square and it stays together better. (Rule of thumb, not an absolute law- but you have to mind your hammer control, especially with lower grades.)

It does give you an appreciation of how hard-won good metal was, with all of the work that went into refining it to something decent and reliable. I guess we'll just have to establish our own Catalan furnaces and hammer mills to get it right.

[valdred]

wrought iron comes in many grades and the easiest ones to identify in the scrap stream are the worst ones to work with; though you can refine them by multiple folding and welding cycles. One thing with wrought iron is that it like to be worked at temperatures where mild steel would be burning and can fray out at cooler temps as it's actually a composite material. Also on the plus side is that at those high temps it's very soft under the hammer.

Where are you at I still have a ton or so of the Byers bidirectional rolled plate from the old Ohio Penitentiary.

So working wrought iron cold is pretty limited, if non-existent? I assume creasing/fluting might be okay to some extent? ...Sounds like the only way to work it is at a yellow.

I live in Kansas. What gauge you suppose it is? What about the quality (perhaps double or triple refined?)?


I appreciate all the input from everyone thus far.

[Thomas Powers]

Wow a week earlier and I could have thrown a piece in my wife's car before she drove to KC for a family reunion this weekend.

Working cold is dependent on quality; the lower grade have larger and more (% by weight) ferrous silicates in them causing issues with cold work The majority of the wrought I have is byers bidirectional rolled plate---the tears have a platey look rather than a fibrous look. However I have a lot of other examples to a lesser amount. Can you process 1" diameter rod? The wagon tyres tend to be of the lowest grades.

There are some folks from Calontir going to Battlemoor Labour day if you can arrange for transport of some. I'm on Artisan's Lane with my forges; but would need prior notification to include it in the packing list.

[Cap'n Atli]

Thomas: Given that the last company producing wrought iron in the U.S. closed in 1969, and those in England and Sweden shortly thereafter, is there any source of actual sheet iron (12 ga. + -) short of scrapping antique farm machinery? I've got bi-directional plate, and plenty of old fence, and ship spikes of varying quality, but I'm curious as to how it would perform in sheet form.

(For some reason the neighbors, Coast Guard, and Corps of Engineers won't let me run a dam across the mouth of our estuary to power a hammer mill.)

[valdred]

Wow a week earlier and I could have thrown a piece in my wife's car before she drove to KC for a family reunion this weekend.

Working cold is dependent on quality; the lower grade have larger and more (% by weight) ferrous silicates in them causing issues with cold work The majority of the wrought I have is byers bidirectional rolled plate---the tears have a platey look rather than a fibrous look. However I have a lot of other examples to a lesser amount. Can you process 1" diameter rod? The wagon tyres tend to be of the lowest grades.

There are some folks from Calontir going to Battlemoor Labour day if you can arrange for transport of some. I'm on Artisan's Lane with my forges; but would need prior notification to include it in the packing list.

I would really like to find some wrought iron that's already in a sheet - within the US. I wouldn't mind resorting to thinning a sheet, but definitively not drawing out and plattening a billet or bar.

Thanks for the offer/invitation though

[Thomas Powers]

Well the ton or so I have of the byers bidirectional rolled is in 3/16" and 5/16" sheet/plate.

I've been considering a spangen with the bands from the higher grade 1" stuff hammered out and the plates worked from wagon tyre---not for fighting though. Probably will need me to get a new apprentice to work the sledge drawing them out or power to my powerhammers.

[Gustovic]

I did flatten steel from a more or less cubic piece, with a 125 Kg Beché.
The one on the left


If the proportions are kept, it's not that bad.

[Thomas Powers]

More Power! I know a guy with a 200# Chambersburg that I've used; I kind of wish he'd get the 2000# running or even his 1000# one. Unfortunately he's a 5 hour drive from where I am now. If the local guy gets his 125 ton hydraulic press working maybe I can make some armouring stock. What thickness would you like for starting stock?

[Scott Martin]

0.080" please

Although if you're going to start making sheet I really need to find the time and money to come down and visit! Especially if you're still up for doing the "period damascus" and turning that into sheet (and then armour)

Scott

[valdred]

I could work out 10-12 gauge no prob. 14 gauge would also be nice (and convenient). Please let me know cost + shipping. About what size sheets are we talking about?

[Tableau]

I could use some 3/8 plate.

[Thomas Powers]

forge weld some 5/16 and bob's your uncle Tableau.

I currently have a day job 3 hours away from my shop so this is all vaporware at this point, (for example I'm at work today after a 60 hour week)---I keep collecting wrought iron faster than I am using it as I try to get a visit to the local scrapyard every time I go visit my wife and my shop (got a rental down here with a minimal forging set up; but with *friends* with better shops...)

I also try to bring some wrought iron to battlemoor so folks with similar differing world views can try out the real stuff. I tend to have a soft spot in my heart/head for folks researching stuff...I get it cheap after all.

[Konstantin the Red]

(For some reason the neighbors, Coast Guard, and Corps of Engineers won't let me run a dam across the mouth of our estuary to power a hammer mill.)

Eh, old man, you're behind the times.

You need rotary power for a lift&drop hammer mill. This is where a nice strong 3-phase electric motor and reduction gearing comes in, sir.

Of course if the bam bam bam still troubles them, try the magick of hydraulics. Chi-Com hydraulic presses are actually pretty cheap.

Though they won't work hot metal as fast as a Little Giant.

[Thomas Powers]

All those folks coming to camp Fenby and you can't convince them it would be an honour to swing a sledge for a special wrought iron project? Time to re-read Mark Twain!

[Cap'n Atli]

All those folks coming to camp Fenby and you can't convince them it would be an honour to swing a sledge for a special wrought iron project? Time to re-read Mark Twain!

Hmmmm; actually not a bad idea for a "special project." If not this session, perhaps this November, when it's cooler abnd they're not distracted by rigging-out the ship.

[Thomas Powers]

What could be more period than having a bunch of people working on a project!