The Armour Archive

Hello, I have been asked to make a Charles de Blois style arming coat for a friend that is getting into ACL fighting. I am not concerned about the design itself but more about recommended padding and fabric. I was hoping you guys could help out a bit. I usually make mine from a layer of 7oz linen for the outer layer, 1 layer of bamboo cotton batting then a layer of 5 oz linen for the liner. I have found this combo to pass SCA rapier standards. Thank you for any help you can give.

There is an arming doublet in the Great Wardrobe Accounts of Edward III which has a layer of satin, two layers of linen, and a pound (maybe 300 g) of cotton. I used slightly more cotton than that (1-4 layers depending on location), but the total weight is around 1300 g, and I have not fought in my arming doublet.

It's a pretty variable question to be honest. Some people like more padding than others, but it is as a general rule thicker than what people wear for SCA fighting. I believe the one I got custom made from Quilted Armor is 4 layers, which compresses down quite a bit after a little while of wearing it and sweating in it. It is all natural fiber, linen and wool batting. In ACL type fighting you are really getting beat up much more than in the SCA. Some people like extra padding in places like the shoulder because you get hit there a lot. Same with the upper back. It's there to take some of the oomph out of getting hit with a rebated steel weapon as hard as the other guy can, unlike a fencing jacket which is meant to protect you against a thrust and has that weird punch test thing it is supposed to pass. Also getting hit with a stick of rattan feels completely different.

so from what i am gathering there is no specific requirerments that have to be met as long as it is there and has some padding.

Has he tried someone else's at all? I would see if he has tried it in loaner stuff before that way you could just make this one of similar thickness.

http://www.aclknights.com/armored-comba ... /acl-rules

except helmet padding, thickness is not mentioned in the rules.

as a hmb/acl veteran i have mine as 2 layers throughout and 4 layers in the high impact areas, elbows shoulders and upper back. this is with the cotton/bamboo batting. i'd actually prefer denser padding in the same thickness for those spots. maybe doing 6 layers of the batting would get the feel i want on my upper back. my leg padding is hidden modern kneepads and 2 layers cotton batting. since my upper back was light on the padding and i didn't want to resew it, i built a zoombang shirt for extra padding on my shoulders and upper back

Thank you for the info

Amanda M wrote:Has he tried someone else's at all? I would see if he has tried it in loaner stuff before that way you could just make this one of similar thickness.

Not sure how practical that would be. A Charles de Blois needs to fit very closely in the belly if it is going to function and look right.

They were not designed to be made 'off the rack' like modern clothing.

the main problem with trying it out from loner gear is he will not fit most peoples gear

Sean M, I am aware. I am only looking at it from a padding g perspective not fit. Some guys don't fight with much padding at all, others like more. It's like asking what kind of armor is the best, you will get different answers from everyone.

Many of the commercial ones are built with 4 layers of padding and they are quilted construction. Some sellers have a bohurt version and a singles version and the singles version is half as much padding. I believe mine from Quilted Armor is 4 layers which may seem like a lot but it compressed down quite a bit the first time I wore it.

What is going to be on top of the gambeson? Full plate requires less padding than splint or brigandine. My own gambeson for BotN and IMCF is around 1cm in thickness when not compressed, double on the shoulders and hips and lot more in the joints (where is also wool felt). The rules for BotN are a bit more complex than ACL, but here are the most important parts of them regarding this topic:

In addition to body armor, the fighter’s body is to be protected with underarmor padding, which covers the whole torso. The minimum allowed protection is woolen (cloth) and linen material sewn together.

The spine and tailbone should have metal plate protection with quilted or padded protection. The thickness of these elements should be not less than 3mm for quilted and 5mm for padded in reinforced form.

The fighter’s elbows and knees must have steel plate protection. If the plate protection doesn’t fit the fighter’s armor, it should be hidden under the authentic element of the set. The minimum level of underarmor protection includes quilted or padded protective layer no less than 10mm thick in a condensed form.

All the rules are found here: http://botn.info/rule/en-rules-for-buhurt-category

I am in the process of making a CDB Pourpoint myself. I'm having difficulty with the padding part of things.

I've tried loose (high loft) natural cotton upholstery batting with no luck, there is just too much compression. I had thought about a tight woven quilting style of batting, but it would take dozens of yards for the desired thickness.

Is that just the way it goes or is there a specific style of batting that is recommended, and if so what are some suppliers?
Thanks in advance