Armouring As A Career

[mrks]

as any armoury ever turned a profit? Foreign or domestic?
Has any armourer ever gotten rich? Foreign or domestic?
Does anyone know of an amourer that has ever gotten investment capital with an actual business plan? Foreign or domestic?

yes I made a profit every year when I was working full time.
usually 6-8k. everything I made was to custom measurements and 99 percent was in titanium. was a very niche product.
never got rich. starving artist describes most all armourers who are full time.
all my techniques are osha non compliant and some quite dangerous. so taking employees was never an option.

great thread I enjoyed see who was still in business.
MRKS

[wilmot]

Hi, It has been a while. My business was Rough from the Hammer which made armour parts. I sold the business to Cet (David Rylak) in 2002. The finished armour I made was mostly sold through Ice Falcon.

[Aaron]

Hi, It has been a while. My business was Rough from the Hammer which made armour parts. I sold the business to Cet (David Rylak) in 2002. The finished armour I made was mostly sold through Ice Falcon.

Did you make a living wage being an armourer? Living wage in this case is defined as living over the poverty line. For example, the poverty line in Idaho is just over $24K per year.

https://talkpoverty.org/state-year-repo ... 17-report/

After taking in the profits for the year, and subtracting out the medical care, medical insurance, business insurance, supplies, operating costs, travel, etc...did you take home a living wage for where you live?

From my experience most armourers seem to be consumed by their art, and can't not-armour any more than a salmon can decide not to swim upstream. My highly questionable opinion is that only one out of every ten armourers ever make a living wage. Most are starving artists who can't seem to give up their addictive art.

And...I know I've tipped armourers as a subtle hint that their prices were too low. The only person I know of that prices their armour right is Ice Falcon, and even he is a tad low IMO. I think I even tipped Ice Falcon a couple of times.

Watching armourers armour is one of the great pleasures I've had from this website. I've seen them in action. It seems to be inspired madness, and would make excellent performance art IMO. That there is a product at the end is a bonus. But, IMO armourers suffer for their art and the prices are way, way too low for the wear-and-tear on their bodies and minds.

[Signo]

The armour bug kills slower than the Ginosaji (check youtube for more info).

[Indianer]

Watching armourers armour is one of the great pleasures I've had from this website. I've seen them in action. It seems to be inspired madness. [...] But, IMO armourers suffer for their art and the prices are way, way too low for the wear-and-tear on their bodies and minds.

Not to mention the time just required to learn the framework, what it needs to be like to be at all, the technical stuff and specialized equipment handling. Took me years and so much help, still not quite done.

Apart from that, well said. I love the madness-line.

Best, Indi

[Ckanite]

Wear on their minds. Not even something I've considered....

[Aaron]

Wear on their minds. Not even something I've considered....

You are thinking in multiple ways at the same time. You are converting a 2D metal sheet into 3D useful art based upon the client's vague descriptions of their daydreams. You have to budget in your health, time, equipment, etc... I think it's insane. I love watching it happen though.

Someone eventually will set up a video camera in their armouring business so people can watch what is happening. Just speed up the video about 60x so a ten hour day becomes a ten minute video. It would make for good advertising IMO.

[wcallen]

I think, for us, that the wear on the minds was dealing with deadlines and past due deadlines.
Designing a new project and thinking about where the metal would go was the fun part.

But, like most others, I am no longer a professional armourer. If I ever make a piece for money again, it won't be because I need the money.

Wade

[Sean M]

A.S.H. Armour Services Historical celebrated its 10th anniversary sometime after March 2018, and held a 10% off sale at TORM to celebrate. He focuses on 15th century brigandines.

Erik D. Schmid on his first career as a haubergier:

What began in college as a slight interest would later evolve into a hobby. A hobby, as luck would have it, that became an occupation. For good or bad, the occupation eventually transformed itself into an all-consuming obsession. One that would consume the majority of my waking hours for a fair number of years. At any given time during this period, I would be perfecting my craft by working ten to twelve hours a day, seven days a week. That was my life. Nothing else really mattered.

He eventually gave it up, and now only sells small items like coifs and standards.

[RandallMoffett]

That is a shame. I loved his mail shirts.

[wilmot]

Aaron, I built and sold stuff to supplement my income to buy toys or to pay the bills when I was between jobs. My wife had Medical benefits so that was not an issue. I would never do this as a permanent, sole form of income. It was easier back 20, 25 years ago before production became world wide and people would run businesses based on buying others work and having it copied overseas but still a tough way to earn a living and not for the unmotivated or faint of heart.

[KWilliams]

Wulfe Armoury (not mentioned by Aaron in his Armoury list) was turning a profit before it imploded due to a deceptive student/employee. Shut down in 2014.

Now that the mess made by that former student/employee has been cleared up and he is sitting where he deserves, Wulfe Armoury is opening back up.

I have to agree with the statements of tuning to a higher end market, however. You cannot make a 250$ pair of gauntlets and turn a profit. Make an 800$ pair of gauntlets and you can. You can never, ever sell yourself (time, energy and skill) short. You have to put a real value on your time and skill.

-- Say a pair of gauntlets takes 30 hours to make, and you total material cost is 75$, and tool wear/expendables (like sanding belts and electricity) cost 25$ and you put 25$ back into the shop towards growth. totaling 125$. At 250$ for those gauntlets, you have just paid yourself 125$ for 30 hours of work, which is about 4.17$ an hour. If you charge 800$, that gives you 675$, which is about 22.50$ an hour... Get rich? No. But living wage? Yes.

[Aaron]

Aaron, I built and sold stuff to supplement my income to buy toys or to pay the bills when I was between jobs. My wife had Medical benefits so that was not an issue. I would never do this as a permanent, sole form of income. It was easier back 20, 25 years ago before production became world wide and people would run businesses based on buying others work and having it copied overseas but still a tough way to earn a living and not for the unmotivated or faint of heart.

Thanks!

[Lurker 2]

I agree with Keith you have to make your work worth while and be able to charge enough for it, I think the key is to find a the right set of products that people are willing to pay your price for, weather it is high end gauntlets or plastic basket hilts. I like the second because it is something you do not directly need to make you pay a machine to do it. So that is something else to consider how much work can you do vs who or what you can pay to do the work for you and you manage the business and design the products. For me personally I treat armouring as a side business and a way to pay for my hobby. I still charge a living wage rate for my work but I don't depend on it to put food on the table, I think I will keep it this way and once I finish home repairs I'm hitting the shop seriously so I can make some addition money. While it might be a side business it is still a business and needs to be ran as such that is the most important thing to remember.

[Steve S.]

My sister in law makes knock-offs of simple Etsy woodworking projects and sells it to the soccer moms in her upscale neighborhood for insane money. Like a simple 2x4 planter holder for your porch with your favorite team name painted on it for like $200. If you took it to a roadside flea market you wouldn't get $25.

The trick is finding the people with the money.

Mainstream armouring grew out of a cult of broke nerds. People were cobbling together anything remotely passable as armour so that they could fight. Those that had a knack for it tried their hands at selling their work but were were up against a couple of big obstacles: First, their customer base was broke. Second, they grew up in a culture that encouraged people be seen as working to help others rather than to make money.

Today the issue is with globalization there are many talented metal workers all over the world content with wages far less than what is sustainable in places like the USA. If you want to make run-of-the-mill armour you are going to be competing with Indian and other armourers and that's going to be hard to do unless you can find a way to use technology to give you a competitive edge (CNC cutting of pattern pieces, hydraulic forming, etc.).

The good news is that many of the broke SCA (and other) armour buyers have grown up and now can afford to buy nice toys. So if you have the skill to make high-end things, you can sell a $1000 helmet. There are people willing to pay top dollar for high-end things. You just have to find them and cater to them instead of the low end.

Steve

[Willing Pell]

Unless you are exceptionally talented and I mean like museum quality pieces, my answer is no. I used to make armor for fun and sale, I made a few bucks but when the Indians started shipping armor to the US ,the market dropped out. I could still sell armor but people were not willing to pay more than they could pay for Indian stuff. I was getting commission offers for helmets that people were not willing to pay more than 75 bucks for helmets I used to sell for 300. The time and material cost put my profit below minimum wage. I work at a machine shop part time now. I love to make armor but not for 7 bucks an hour.

[Jiri Klepac]

Hello Guys,

After say 20 years is business, only making custom pieces, being relativelly "famous", living in relatively cheap place, I think this way of business makes no economic sense, brings huge amount of stress, body abuse and frustration. If I knew what I know now those 20 years back, I would choose dofferent career. Never tried any work with worse efforts/profit ratio. Totally agree with James Arlen

Jiri

[Aaron]

You did well for 20 years though. That's good. I figured out based on my armouring skills that I wouldn't last 20 minutes. I'd have to sell my products for less than the cost of the raw materials. Armouring seems to be inspired artistic madness, and I like watching it. But I could never join the madness except as showing up occasionally as a volunteer shop monkey helper...just to get a better view of the artistic madness.

Armouring is guessing what the client wants in their fevered imaginations, and building that knowing that the imagination might change while you bend the steel.