Making a sallet and bevor (Can method)

[David G]

I have returned, and now that I kind of know what I'm doing, I've been trying to design and build a sallet for SCA use. The whole harness it pairs with is designed to be Austrian, around 1480s or so. It's designed to go with the "Innsbruck" type style, although on the less high end side.

The other part about this project is that I'm primarily designing it with 3d modeling software. I've never been a very good draftsman, so its a lot easier to do it digitally. It's definitely convenient to just be able to scale the whole thing without having to redraw it, but making sure it scales correctly is difficult. Having a head tracing behind it definitely helps. Anyways, here are the images of it I have so far, overlaid on top of my terribly unflattering head sketch:





(Yes, my head is actually that wide, Most of the SCA loaner helmets didn't go past my ears...)
The bevor pivots inside of the helmet, and opens up just barely enough to stick my head in it. Pretty much a closed sallet, but disguised to look like a regular bevor. I'm not sure what will keep the bevor from moving too far in the other direction. All else fails, I can weld a small "shelf" on the inside of the helmet for it to rest on. I'm not sure how much the bevor should come in under the chin, I tried to keep enough room that my mouth is able to move, but maybe it's too much. The actual design of the sallet is based off of that one Caspar Rieder helmet from the Met, but I stuck a visor on it because I didn't think I'd be able to pull off the "one part" design. It's designed to have about a half inch of padding on the helmet, plus a suspended liner on the inside. This comes out to about 3/4 of an inch of space around the head.

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Right now the little "arms" are part of the bevor, but those may be welded on afterwards. The "wrapper" on the back of the bevor is mainly just to cover up the gap on the back of the helmet to placate the marshals. The design right now is for two rectangular pins that allow the plate to be removed. I might change one side to a buckle so that the fit can be adjusted a bit. The reason it doesn't attach with a hinge is that there isn't enough space inside the helmet for it to open all the way. Maybe it's enough to stick your head in it, but I don't know. The bevor design is somewhat temporary until I get the gorget made, the plan is for a steel gorget that I can just stick under a maille standard.

As far as the construction goes, the plan is to use the usual "Can method", MIG welded together out of what I think is just a bit thinner than 1/8in thick mild steel. It's almost too thick, but I've got what feels like an unlimited supply of this stuff, so it might be worth trying. Can't beat free. It'd also give me extra material to grind off, which may help make up for my somewhat lackluster planishing tools. The bevor will be about 14 gauge mild, possibly raised. If I can't do that then it'll have a weld going down the center.



Anyways, is there anything I should change? Anything I've overlooked? It'll probably be quite some time before I actually start working on this project, I've got the rest of the harness to work on, but I figured I'd put it out there before I officially start.

[Indianer]

Hi David,

I will refrain from commenting on the Sallet. There are a handful of more reliable people left here. Could take some time until they return however. Things have been slow here for months now. Or years... don't remember.

Might be worthwhile to list Your sources for the lines and general shape of the object thought.

I would however like to ask, what program did You use and can You recommend it for that kind of work? I had been thinking about employing 3D references as well, never got to the point where I would have needed to learn modeling though.

Best regards, and thanks for the post.
Indi

[David G]

Hi, thanks for commenting.
And yeah, it certainly seems that way these days.

As far as the sources go, the sallet is pretty much this one by Caspar Rieder from the Met, they dated it to about 1480:


I didn't think I'd be able to pull off the one part design, so I separated the visor into a separate part. Normally I would have made an entirely new model, but the decision was made pretty late in the process. It might look a bit "exaggerated" since I had to scale it quite a bit to fit my head. The visor was mostly designed after this one from the Churburg armory:


And the bevor is just kind of a standard "bevor", not based off of anything in particular. I had this one saved as a basis for the overall shape, but I have no idea where it came from, it might even be Italian. It's Goll number is 3164:


I use Blender for modeling. It might not be the easiest to use interface-wise, but it's free. I've spent an absurd number of hours using it so I might already be at a bit of an advantage, but it certainly has its uses. You can even kind of generate patterns and stuff with it. I don't know if it'd be much better than drafting if you've never used it before though. I just suck at visualizing things and I don't have the attention span or skills to do manual drafting that often... so Blender it is.

I'd recommend it as a 3d software in general, but I don't know if it's the best for designing armor. The disconnect between the digital model and real life can sometimes bite you in the ass if you aren't careful.

[Indianer]

I understand how You are drawn to not 'drawing'. I think it is a legitimate way of getting proportions right and especially useful when used with a body model to work over. Also i appreciate the artistic value and flexibility of a done model.

When You have undistorted photographs Your will have to compare them to the model anyway. At that point it's worth considering going straight to drawings where the goal is a reproduction. But yes, drawings are hard.

Thanks for the resources. About the general curves:

Front view, skull: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/24701

With the bottom a little wider, the concave curve less pronounced and the widest point a little higher you could scale it down a tad.

Or you just leave it as is as I do not see anything wrong with it. It has to work. When it does the rest is fair variety.

[David G]

Thanks for the input. I went back and compared with my references, and made some changes. This is about the gist of it:

The changes I can remember is that I gave it a bigger "forehead" to match up a bit better with the original helmet. I've also noticed quite a bit of variation here on the extant sallets I've seen. Some have a real Megamind thing going on, while others look like they got sat on. I also made the lower edge of the helmet a bit higher, overall. I forgot to include the wrapper on the bevor, but it is still unchanged. (I am also aware that my head tracing is asymmetrical, I'll see if I can try to fix it)

It would be nice to have a body model to work off of. I've even considered trying to get the data from a past CT scan I've gotten and loading it into Blender. Supposedly it can be done, but that's just kind of a wacky idea. I don't think you'd get much out of that level of precision anyways.

On the topic of reference images, one of the cool things Blender (or 3d in general) lets you do is simulate perspective distortion on the model:



Might be a bit of a bad example, the oculars don't really line up anymore, but it conveys the idea. You can even change the focal length and sensor size of the camera if you know what the original was. (Unfortunately, you usually don't. You just have to guess)

Here it is compared to an orthographic (Zero perspective, like a technical drawing) view:


If you made the model directly from that, you'd end up with kind of a "droopy" looking helmet. You'd also have a hell of a time getting separate reference images to line up properly. I use this quite a bit, although it's rare that you get a model that completely lines up in all images.

Anyways, rambling over.

[Indianer]

Well dang! This is beautiful! The distortion simulation is great.

You'd also have a hell of a time getting separate reference images to line up

I think the natural asymmetry of authentic pieces factors into that. Imagine trying to reconcile different examples with a few images each. That's what I did several times. You need to find an idealized shape, that's where modeling probably has its limit. Too complex I imagine.

I went back and compared with my references, and made some changes.

I'm not a good reference here. But i like the changes. A bit of a subtler indent, and you created more space above the lateral dome of the skull. Good.

Some have a real Megamind thing going on, while others look like they got sat on

Nobleborns had bigger helmets. Made them look smart and important. Yes, these were squashed and/or raised. These processes are not entirely reproducible. The shape had to function, and for that there were tolerances.

Now: Your visor pivot points are symmetrical. Fix that. Asymmetry there was accepted because it creates tension as the visor is up, keeping it up. Let the active armourers advise you on that, I can't.

[David G]

Thanks! It is possible to make the models assymetrical, I usually just don't bother with it. I forgot about the visor pivots, I had them assymetrical at one point, and then questioned myself on how asymmetrical they should be and kind of forgot. I put it back in with about an 3/16" of vertical distance between the two pivots. The effect on extant sallets is usually pretty subtle, I'm not sure how much you would need to keep the visor up.

[Mac]

I have a few things to suggest about the project, but I am out of town and my connection is slow. I'll be back late Sunday, and should be able to contribure something on Monday.

Mac

[David G]

Alright! I look forward to it.

This'll probably be the last major update for a bit, I'll give the changes I made some time to settle in, and see if I like them or not.

The areas in orange are the "simulated" half inch padding. I've had a tough time trying to cram that much into the bevor and still make it look like a proper bevor, mainly from the front view. That might change depending on how close it actually gets to my face.

The bib lames are also kind of a placeholder for now, how low I can get that depends on my cuirass and spaulder setup. Those'll be mostly finished by the time I properly start on those. There is also some space left in the helmet for a relatively thin suspension liner. Not sure how much difference this'll make, but it'll probably be more comfortable than the foam.

The last thing is the wrapper situation for the back of the helmet.

If I can get the bevor to open all the way, (For this, it means that the top of the roll will touch the top of the face opening) then I can just barely get the wrapper to hinge out of the way. I had to move the attachment pivot around quite a bit for it to open far enough. If it works out, then it'll make it a lot easier to put on the helmet. Won't have to fiddle around with pins or anything. Its a bit ugly with how it doesn't continue the top line of the fall plate, but you won't see that part when the helmet is on anyways. The top edge is just a flared edge that helps cover up the gap between the back of the helmet, I could also replace it with a roll if it ends up scratching the inside of the helmet too much. The strap on the back also helps cover up the hinge a bit, and maybe as a bonus it might "pad" it if it ever somehow manages to take a direct hit.

I could avoid most of this engineering I have to do to get it to hinge by replacing it with some kind of padded-maille-over-leather combination. It'd also look more historical too, I suppose, like the bevors with the maille on the back. I mainly just don't trust anything short of metal to protect my head with.

[David G]

I had a bit of a new idea. I scrapped the whole hinge thing, and just mounted the wrapper plate on the inside of the helmet. This effectively just makes it into a later century close helmet, that just looks like a sallet. Both the bevor and the wrapper attach on the liner rivets, which may or may not actually work out.

Previously the bevor mounted a lot lower on it's own pivot, but I get one less visible rivet on the outside if I do it this way. The downside to this is that the roll on the bevor either has to stop or be completely flat or else it starts to hit the edges of the helmet when you try to open it. Not too sure how to manage that.

Maybe I'm just overcomplicating this by trying to make it look like a regular sallet. Either way, this is probably the end of the design phase, at least for the skull of the helmet. Next part is actually trying to build it.