Dishing

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:04 am

I know that this has been discussed countless times, but please indulge some one attepting their first foray in armouring with metal. I usually work with leather.
As I have posted before I am making a spangenhelm out of stainless, 14guage for the top and the bands, 16 guage for the slats and cheek pieces.
Now for the question, when dishing do you work from the center out, or from the edge in towards the center? Please forgive the ignorance, but CRS does strike at the age of birth.

Thanks for indulging me. And, thanks for the help in advance.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Clay · Post by **Clay** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:38 am

You'll find two different schools of thought on this. In the long run, the answer is "do whatever you want" but its fun to listen to people take sides over this on the archive

I like to start on the outside and work my way in so that I get all the wrinkled edges smoothed out first. Once I get done with my first pass around the piece, I start from the inside and go out. I repeat this until (a) my arm falls off or (b) I achieve the desired result in shaping the steel.

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I'm not being mean, I'm just telling you how it is.
Salinas Swordsman
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DanNV · Post by **DanNV** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 11:54 am

I first learned to work from the center out, but found the center was thinnng too much. So, I asked James Greyhelm about it and his suggestions were to use a much smaller dishing hole in my stump (Nothing over 1.5 inches if dishing with a ball pien hammer) and to work from the outside in. I found things to work much better this way.

Dan

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:08 pm

There aren't actually two schools of thought. There is one insane Wombat, and a few beginners who don't know any better, and then there is the entire armoring world, including Brian Price [get his book!] and everyone else who is any good at all.
I am not exaggerating.

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Gundobad,
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Sanity is very rare. Every man almost, and every woman, has a dash of madness - R.W. Emerson

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Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Thu Jun 21, 2001 12:32 pm

And then there's the fence sitters who swing both ways if ya know what I mean (wink wink).

Course I'm one of the stupid beginners Gundo mentioned.

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The budding mid 14th century German Transitional guy.
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Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Sat Jun 23, 2001 9:38 am

Ok, I'm stooooopid when it comes to metal working. Slap me smart.

Which is it? I have Clay's answer. I may just go with that. Any other suggestions? Just checking before I totally ahnilate the metal by doing it wrong. Thanks.

Gundo, I've heard countless recommendations for Mr. Price's book, and am planing to buy it sometime. I'm broke at the moment though. I promise, I'll get it.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 12:26 am

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 1:01 am

Work around the edges, spiraling in to the center.

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Gundobad,
Wise Ogre Armory
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Sanity is very rare. Every man almost, and every woman, has a dash of madness - R.W. Emerson

A position worth taking, is worth defending.

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 4:47 am

I agree. I start at the edges and work inwards. keeps the metal form thinning out too much, keeps the edges for too much deformation, gets as much of the steel as possible into contact with the smooth inside surface of the dishing bowl as quickly as possible.

Having said that, there are exceptions to the rule. For me one of the exceptions is shield bosses.
For a Spangenhelm, which uses shallow dishing on narrow pannels...it really doesn't matter what you do as long as you are using a raw-hide faced hammer. For pannels that size, just whack 'em and make it happen!

Sasha

Erik Schmidt · Post by **Erik Schmidt** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:17 pm

Sasha, what's the reason you don't dish shield bosses from the outside in? I would have thought they are particularly critical to get evenly thinned as they are very deep.
I dish mine from outside towards the centre, and it works well.

Erik

Sasha · Post by **Sasha** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:35 pm

I built a jig for making shieldbosses. I use a raw-hide faced 10kg Sledge hammer. The disk is set into the jig and then I do the "dance of the hammer" (circling a step to the left for every blow so that strikes come from 360degrees). Because the jig is a bottomless dish, the metal stretches at a uniform rate (as long as the blows are not all landing from the one direction). This improves speed and insures a deep dished, evenly domed shield boss.

Sasha

Krag · Post by **Krag** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 6:58 pm

Inside out, ouside in....niether are going to make a much difference in the thinness of the metal if you do it evenly. Metal is like electricity. It will follow the path of least resistance. The theory is that as you work in from the outside edges, you're pushing the metal towards the center so it doesn't thin out as much. BUT, If you work from the inside to the edges, you're going to stretch the metal from the thickest part preferentially, so it really makes no difference from a "thinning" perspective. Try and do it evenly and in passes regardless which way you do it and thinning shouldn't be a problem. The one thing you will most definitely notice is the wrinkling. If you start on the inside, the edges will buckle and wrinkle. This alone should be enough reason to start at the edges. Not to mention, it seems easier to hold it in the form without transfering blows to the hand...I guess it depends how you hold it. You want the metal to be touching something in three places..otherwise your hand becomes the third and when you smack the steel with a 12 lb shot-put, it will hurt!

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Krag von Berghen
KragAxe Armoury

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white mountain armoury · Sun Jun 24, 2001 7:27 pm

outside in roughing out the shape, then here and there as needed.
I use a power hammer alot and this can sometimes dictate diff methods that are mostly an issue of being able to fit the finnished item in the throat of the hammer
i do agree wish sasha, its not nearly as critical on a spangen, the narrow pieces form so much more easily, just use a technique that will minimize/neutralize any wrinkling

Gundo · Post by **Gundo** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 8:37 pm

Krag: Sounds good in theory, but 10 years of armoring says nope.

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Gundobad,
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Sanity is very rare. Every man almost, and every woman, has a dash of madness - R.W. Emerson

A position worth taking, is worth defending.

Krag · Post by **Krag** » Sun Jun 24, 2001 11:15 pm

Well, I've never notice any differences in four years, other than the edge stuff. If someone is getting the metal too thin, they're doing something wrong...more than just where they started dishing from.

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Krag von Berghen
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