The Armour Archive

Hi,
I had my wisdom teeth all pulled and I've ironically had the most armour productive weekend yet!

After finishing several other projects, I had some latigo and some nice leather sitting around. So I made one of the liners used in the "Raising a one piece conical" essay.

I measured the helmet where the brow-band was to go, then punched the holes, cut out six gores of leather, and sewed them down. Even riveting inside the helm was not as difficult as I thought it would be. All of my rivet holes are lined up perfectly.

I am very pleased. The fit is wonderful now. I can't buckle the chinstrap yet, because of the swelling of my jaw. But I'm excited. Anyone else have luck with these?

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Idëval
The Huntsman of
I-Nossë Lúmëvanwa
My mind opens wide when I roar

The liner sounds quite nice! Is there any way you could provide pics? I just can't get a good visualization from your description.

Sounds good, though!

~Baculus

Has anyone used these for SCA purposes? If so, what was your opinion?
john

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"and the springfieldians heroicly slaughtered there enemys while they prayed for mercy!"

Where did you get that 'essay' from?? I'd be interested in reading it and possibly trying the same thing... Thanks...

Robert Davidson
Shire of Heraldshill
Calontir

Darius uses a suspension rig in some of his helmets. He might be able to give you some advice on setting one up (contact him through www.stormthewalls.dhs.org ). In fact, I believe that the helm he fights in is suspension rigged. It is not always possible to do on every helm and have it look right, but I believe it can be managed on most. Contact him and he can tell you for sure.
I do know though that suspension rigging is among the safest and most impact protective forms of padding you can get. That is the reason that suspension strapping is used in construction hard hats and other professional safety helmets.

http://www.anvilfire.com/21centbs/armor/NormanHelmet/Part1.html

This one?

Thanks, Frederick!
I was not able to find that essay, but I remembered how to make the liner.
I was hoping someone would post the link.
Sorry, no pictures at the moment.

I heartily recommend these liners. I'm sure they could be used on almost any helm. I don't know what would prevent it, other than something in the way of the rivets.

Idëval

Ideval:

Warning! When I put the leather liner together for the Norman helmet, I wasn't endorsing its use for SCA-type sport combat! Just want to get that on the record. Actually, I don't have a real clue how it would perform, since I don't do sport fighting, and nobody I know in any re-creation group uses a pure suspension-type liner.

My concern is side-to-side impact cushioning. See, hardhats use very simple suspensions because they are designed to protect you from small, hard objects being dropped on top of your head from a height. For blows to the top of your skull, a suspension is great; it absorbs impact energy just fine. But if you get whomped in the temples by a hard side blow, all you have is a couple of layers of leather between your skull and the helmet -- and your temples are very fragile!

That is why, in the article, I speculated that a simple leather liner was used, backed up by (at least) a padded coif worn as a separate piece on the head. The idea is to get some padding around your temples and eyebrows, both to cushion side impacts, and to keep the helmet from rocking side-to-side under glancing blows or quick head movements.

In several helmets made after the Norman, I made a more complicated liner. Instead of leather gores, I cut out fabric gores, two layers, sewed them together leaving a space between, and the bottom seam open, shoved in padding (I've used both felt and tow; heck, you could even use foam wedges, for extra safety -- I won't tell!), sewed the stuffed gores shut, then stitched them into the helmet using exactly the same method as shown in the Norman article. This made a padded suspension liner, VERY comfortable and snug. It's even period, based on the few specimens left in museums!

Now, I may be full of it, here, because I'm not a fighter by any stretch. Any fighters on this board who have fought rattan in a simple leather suspension lining? Maybe it does work great, but I get the willies when someone applies a technique I've posted to actual bashing-type conditions. PLEASE be careful, Ideval! And consider a padded coif, if you don't have one already. Again, I have no idea how a leather liner will fare under heavy side or front impacts.

Eric T.

Hey, thanks Eric!
I appreciate your concerned and thorough reply.
To set your mind at ease, I do not participate in the SCA. This liner went into an "Elvish" helmet for Middle Earth re-enactment.
However, I do use steel swords when fighting and your concerns are warranted. I made the liner exactly as your essay instructed, but I padded the helmet bowl and brim with sheep-s wool before tying the gores and folding them inside.
When fighting, I wear a leather arming cap beneath a 1/4" 16 gauge coif. I have not fought in this particular helmet yet because my face is still too swollen to properly fit a chinstrap.

On the padded fabric gores, did you use six gores or perhaps four? Also, did you sew the gores to a leather band, or was your band also fabric reinforced at the rivet points?
I am already planning a padded liner for an early kettle helmet that should be arriving soonish. I requested that it be made to my measurements, not SCA measurements, so a period lining is necessary as I won't have excessive foam-room.
Thanks again,
Idëval

Ideval:

When using cloth, I use four.

Actually, the padded cloth gores are usually all cut in one piece, not separate. That is, I just cut two pieces of canvas with four "bumps", if you follow, then sew the two pieces together with the bottom open. Turn inside out, stuff, fold bottom seam in, sew, and you're done. You may want to make the gores separate, though; easier to sew, unless you are good at it, or have a lady who is (my fortunate case; I sewed one, and that was enough for me!).

The folded-in bottom seam has a lot of meat to it, so it is easy to hand-stitch through it to a brow band. You don't go through the padding, that way. I use a leather band, just as for the leather liners. If you look at the liner page in the Norman article, you'll see that I am stitching the gores to the bottom of the band, lying over the band rivets. This makes a curved needle very handy, since the needle tip emerges under the band next to the inside helment surface (the needle is barely visible in the photos).

From your description of your method, I think you are stiching the gores to the bottom of the band, with the gores lying outside the helmet, then folding the gores up and in? If this works, great; I avoided it because I thought such folding-up would mess up the stitching.

Eric T.

All of my helmets except the one bascinet I used for the SCA are suspension-type consisting of pie-shaped pieces of leather with adjustable ties at the top, sewn to a leather band, either riveted on or in one case, sewn through holes drilled every 1/4" around the bottom edge. The chin strap, whether buckled, tied or swallow-tailed is also sewn to this band.
When I did a 13th C. knight/Renn. Faire live-steel gig, I used a barrel helm with this type of lining. We hit side-to-side but NEVER face thrusts. I was the only one who could take downward blows because of my armour. The side of the barrel helm was eventually crushed in with a mace but the leather suspension never failed. This same helm would not pass SCA inspection because a face thrust would have broken my nose.
I have thick elk hide cut to make liners for my spangenhelm and Norman nasal. If I'd have finished the Norman helm before I attempted to use it, I wouldn't have gotten hit in the face Sunday with a steel sword. The nasal would have blocked it. But I used an ill-fitting throw-together method and wound up having to toss the helmet in order to see (and not accidently hit) my opponent, so I am going to be re-doing all of these helmets in the next couple of weeks while all you losers get to go have fun at Pennsic! I'll post what I did and how it turns out. I am planning on using sheep with the wool against the metal as the pie-shaped pieces on at least one.

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Virtus vincit invidiam
"Virtue overcometh envy"

[This message has been edited by Bascot (edited 07-31-2001).]

Aha!
Great tips! Especially about the one piece with four "bumps."
Something that I did that made the process go very quickly was that I sewed the gores onto the band before riveting it inside the helm - my father was an upholsterer for a while, but his curved needles are mostly for car-weight leather.

By sewing the gores to the "outside" of the leather band, folding them in produced a soft leather roll against the temple and hid my less than stunning stitchery.

Keeping the gores out of my way when finally riveting the brow band in was a pain! I kept the band unconnected until I had the whole thing almost riveted. I was surprised to find the fit perfect.
Thanks,
Idëval